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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
My Cayman is now 12 years old and has 103,000 miles (and 100% stock). Driving around town she feels fine, but I attended a HPDE at VIR last November and high speed floatiness and instability was a bit of an issue. In particular the car was not a fan of the Uphill Esses or the dip just after the slight kink on the front straight. With that in mind, seems to me that the car is due for a suspension overhaul now if I want to return to the track (well, at least any track that isn't flat :hilarious: ). Replacing all these parts is an opportunity to improve the performance. My Cayman is a part time DD with about 10,000 miles driven per year. Previous DDs are a BRZ and S2000, so I'm no stranger to stiff suspensions and am aware that the parts I've selected for upgrade will result in a stiffer ride. I'm basically sharing my parts upgrade list to gain others' (with experience) advice and/or to point out any items I've accidentally omitted. Here's what I came up with:


  • Coilovers - PSS9s by Bilstein - already ordered
  • Front & Rear Strut Mounts - OEM
  • Front Strut Mount Bearings & Rear Strut Mount Washers - OEM
  • Polyurethane Front & Rear Control Arm Bushings (Inner & Outer) - PowerFlex
  • Polyurethane Rear Toe Control Arm (Track Rod) Bushings - PowerFlex
  • Polyurethane Front & Rear Sway Bar Bushings - PowerFlex
  • Front & Rear Sway Bar End Links - OEM equivalent by MOOG
Did I forget anything? Currently the suspension is mostly fine other than worn dampers. The bump stops are ravaged/falling apart and the front strut bearings started making noise a few months ago. I'm looking to keep the parts cost right around $3000 (which is actually where it stands right now). As is known, the PSS9s will drop the car between 20-40mm. I'm not interested in being too low (and worrying about scraping everywhere) so 20mm is fine with me. At that lowered height I wouldn't imagine the increased camber will be an issue. Or am I wrong about that? (also I'm fully aware that after I install all these parts I will need a shop to align and corner weight the car) None of the above parts that I plan to purchase include any sort of alignment adjustment capability. Is that a mistake? To be clear, my planned use for this car is roughly 10,000 street miles + 2-3 HPDE per year.

Thanks in advance! Hope this thread isn't repetitive.

PS: I suppose it's important to list my brake & tire set up. Car is currently equipped with Michelin Pilot Super Sports in stock sizes. Any tires I run on this car will be for street and track use. In the future I may not keep the MPSS's, but any change would be to something with equal or superior performance capabilities. On street my brake pads are OEM. On Track I run Pagid Yellows.
 

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I'm at 124K miles and need to update just like you. A few questions:

Are you doing the work?
where did you order the bilsteins from?


thanks
Rudy
 

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Discussion Starter #3

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Were you with NASA-MA at VIR last November? I bring my Boxster out to DE events with them, as well as work with them in my free time.
 

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Since you don't put that many miles on the car, try Michelin Cup 2s. Amazing improvement over the PSS. I went up a size and they still fit. You focused on suspension, but in the broader topic of car control, you might try track pads.
 

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Not having camber adjustment at the track is going to really take a toll on your tires. Not to mention handling. If you keep the lowering to minimum you can get away with stock alignment range in the rear. On the Front there is roughly 1 degree of adjustment at the top mount, which really isn't enough. Especially if you're using some of that to make the camber symmetrical now. You really need an adjustable LCA like the GT3 or Tarett Cup LCA. The Cups have mono-balls and the GT3s use OEM rubber bushings. The GT3s will be fine for your application but if you are thinking about upgrading the bushings I would go for the the Cups, we can get you into those for the same price or less at that point.

I would recommend against poly bushings as they are maintenance intensive, squeak and wear out rather quickly.

Pagid yellows are great!

As was mentioned the Cup 2s will be a good tire upgrade when the time comes.

None of the above parts that I plan to purchase include any sort of alignment adjustment capability. Is that a mistake? To be clear, my planned use for this car is roughly 10,000 street miles + 2-3 HPDE per year.

PS: I suppose it's important to list my brake & tire set up. Car is currently equipped with Michelin Pilot Super Sports in stock sizes. Any tires I run on this car will be for street and track use. In the future I may not keep the MPSS's, but any change would be to something with equal or superior performance capabilities. On street my brake pads are OEM. On Track I run Pagid Yellows.
 

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If you're looking for a good dual purpose coilover you might want to check out our Ohlins setup. We offer the Ohlins off the shelf valving or our track package with custom valving and spring rates depending on the application. The Ohlins give you height adjustment without changing spring preload as well.


I'm at 124K miles and need to update just like you. A few questions:

Are you doing the work?
where did you order the bilsteins from?


thanks
Rudy
 

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I agree with Joshuaj about Ohlins DFV and being able to use this shock/spring rate for daily usage as the spring rate is 450 lbs/in r and 400 lbs/in f, which requires a better shock to minimize the spring rebound on bumpy back country roads. The camber issue is real in front and solved nicely with Tarett Cup LCA's. Once you make that decision, you might as well have Cup LCA's install in the rear. The reason is the solid feel that the monoballs give the suspension and the lack of motion forward and rear caused by the OEM thrust puck. The Tarett Cup LCA uses a solid red thrust puck that is caster/wheel base adjustable and prevent the arm from moving forward or back as when braking and accelerating. The usefullness is in trail baking and mid corner throttle modulation response. In the front the Cup control arm gives instant response to steering imput as in turn in and steering control either on bumpy or smooth track. The red thrust puck in front also prevent motion so your toe can actually be toe out 6 minutes, which will allow much faster tire reaction to your input. The camber can be adjusted with internal shims in the Cup lower control arms to give -2.0 degrees of camber, the rest being from the OEM adjustments. This LCA camber adjustment also pushes out your tract 20 mm per wheel without affecting the wheel bearings.

The combination of Ohlin's, Tarett Cup LCA's and Tarett GT sway bars with down links is a great mixture of parts. Once you do this, you my want to add adjustable toe links, especially if you car is lowered 30mm from OEM ride height and corner balanced. Elephant adjustable front and rear toe links prevent bump steer, especially under threshold braking causing rear end wiggle. Also a Pedro's Technobrace will help tighten up the rear frame rails as well.

Finally, your brake ducts need updating, GT3 or better ducts in front and 997 Turbo ducts in the rear. Others including my car now have GT2 rear brake ducts lashed to the Tarett LCA's to cool the rotor and the 997 Turbo ducts to cool the caliper and rotor. These ducts are very important as there are no OEM rear ducts on a Cayman 987. Also, with PSM, your rear brakes will get lit up pretty well, especially if used for trail braking.

Just some thoughts.
 

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Hi Rudy,
Ohlins R&T coilovers include 400lb f/458lb r springs, which is a good street and occasional track rate. 400/500 is the next step up from there (and one we really like). Then we keep the 100lb stagger and go up in 50lb matched increments from there.

In any case we have these for $2995. Use "Planet-9" at checkout for free shipping.

Let me know if you have any questions!

What is the price on the Ohlins setup? I don't need custom valving. I do neet 4 new springs and coilovers.

rudy
 

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thanks Joshua, I can't view your web site as your security certificate is expired and my work does not alow me to view.

Rudy
 

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Thanks for heads up Rudy, sorry for the trouble, I'll get them on fixing that right away.

In the meantime you're certainly welcome to call an order in too.

503-575-6317

Cheers,
Josh

thanks Joshua, I can't view your web site as your security certificate is expired and my work does not alow me to view.

Rudy
 

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Rudy,
Just an FYI they found the issue and fixed it. Might take up to 24 hours to take effect on your end. Again, I apologize for any inconvenience.

thanks Joshua, I can't view your web site as your security certificate is expired and my work does not alow me to view.

Rudy
 

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Discussion Starter #14
Were you with NASA-MA at VIR last November? I bring my Boxster out to DE events with them, as well as work with them in my free time.
No it was for the PCA event.

Since you don't put that many miles on the car, try Michelin Cup 2s. Amazing improvement over the PSS. I went up a size and they still fit. You focused on suspension, but in the broader topic of car control, you might try track pads.
With Cup 2's should I be concerned about engine oil starvation issues? I feel like those tires are sticky enough to possibly conflict with that design flaw.

Not having camber adjustment at the track is going to really take a toll on your tires. Not to mention handling. If you keep the lowering to minimum you can get away with stock alignment range in the rear. On the Front there is roughly 1 degree of adjustment at the top mount, which really isn't enough. Especially if you're using some of that to make the camber symmetrical now. You really need an adjustable LCA like the GT3 or Tarett Cup LCA. The Cups have mono-balls and the GT3s use OEM rubber bushings. The GT3s will be fine for your application but if you are thinking about upgrading the bushings I would go for the the Cups, we can get you into those for the same price or less at that point.

I would recommend against poly bushings as they are maintenance intensive, squeak and wear out rather quickly.

Pagid yellows are great!

As was mentioned the Cup 2s will be a good tire upgrade when the time comes.
Thanks for your input Joshua. I had looked over your online catalog. Likewise, I read a fair amount of Apex1's thread about Ohlin's coilovers. However those and the LCAs you spoke of are outside of my budget. Sounds like I should consider Elephant Racing's rubber bushings instead of the polys I mentioned above. What I'm gathering from these comments is that I should be concerned with front camber and rear toe after installing the PSS9s? Perhaps installing front camber plates and those Elephant Racing eccentric adjustable rear track rod bushings is something I should consider?
 

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I totally understand. We all have budgets and different expectations :)

We don't sell the cheapest products. We sell products that work. Bilstein is a good brand, I run their motorsport shocks on one of my rally cars. I don't feel like the Bilstein PSS kit is a great solution for those planning on tracking their 987s, though. Mostly due to the ride height being adjusted via preload/spring length. Same goes for re-bushing the OE LCAs, just order some stock replacements or run what you have now. Putting bushings in the non-adjustable LCAs is throwing good after bad. At the end of the day you still don't have camber adjustment and that's going to be critical for any kind of real track use. For a lot of other cars camber adjustment is super simple, like your previous BRZ, but the Cayman forces us to invest in LCAs if you want real adjustment in the front.
The toe is adjustable but of course linked to the camber so you'll have balance those two with their inherent range limitations or go to an aftermarket solution. The thrust arm bushings get you caster control, which is nice but less critical.

I would focus on replacing whatever parts are worn out and getting camber adjustment in the front.

Thanks for your input Joshua. I had looked over your online catalog. Likewise, I read a fair amount of Apex1's thread about Ohlin's coilovers. However those and the LCAs you spoke of are outside of my budget. Sounds like I should consider Elephant Racing's rubber bushings instead of the polys I mentioned above. What I'm gathering from these comments is that I should be concerned with front camber and rear toe after installing the PSS9s? Perhaps installing front camber plates and those Elephant Racing eccentric adjustable rear track rod bushings is something I should consider?
 

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Discussion Starter #16
Thanks joshua

Will Cup 2 tires cause oil starvation issues on track?
 

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Our cars do not have oil pressure or oil temp gauges. Both of these are really needed for extended track use. Yes a LN deep 2 1/2 Qt sump with windage tray provides much more protection from oil starvation than standard. But like many of us who are reliant on these M97 motors, we simply do not know how they were treated during their life time.

We can not afford to have a rod bearing scar from sucking up air/oil mixture through out the engine, especially when it hot. That combination is really what causes the damage. So, if you want to play with stickier tires and do not want to invest in the deep sump oil protection, use a motor oil that at least will provide some assistance when oil film PSI protection is key, like Driven XP9 10-50W.

We are not talking about the same thing though, as this is a band aid to the real issue as you might get burnt in a very real way some day.
 

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If I plan on lowering my car with simply springs, what camber plates or other parts can I get that would be beneficial for a track minded suspension thats still being used as a daily driver?

I have H&R springs that came off a 987 Spyder but haven’t put them on yet. Now i’m thinking I should do more than just the springs while I’m under the car. Any suggestions?
 

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Two suspension parts are really necessary to liven up your OEM system. Starting at the foundation is your lower control arms. Use GT3 control arms front and rear to give camber control and firm up the thrust bushing and inboard and outboard bushings as well. The additional benefit from the internal shim camber adjuster is added track width to reduce weight transfer side to side in cornering. A definite upgrade to these is Tarett CUP LCA's which have much more robust inner ball joints and a very large outboard monoball joint. The key is the solid thrust bushing with caster/wheelbase adjuster as well. This bushing changes the suspenion by not allowing front/rear wheel movement which allow for much more aggressive toe in the front for great turn in.
Then the shock/spring combination should be looked at as a combination, which means that really you need to find an old set of JRZ's, Ohlins, or PSS9's. Then have them revalved with updated springs geared to your use. Off the self new coilovers are available as package deals are available as well. I would do these two modifications as a group, springs/shocks and LCA's, as the suspenion is totally apart for either of these.

The front swaybar, which can be done later, but still does need a change to bring adjustablility. The rear is a 30 minute job to change out. Down links should be considered to allow the swaybars to give the ride adjustment without preload when corner balance is done.

After these items, a competition alignment and corner balance should be done to bring all of these components together. With this combination of parts, camber can be set to -2.7 f and -2.5 r, with front toe to toe out 5 minutes and toe in 12 minutes rear. The track can be changed to 20 mm wider each corner with the LCA internal shims. Ride height can be adjusted to your specifications, so lower is better to reduce side to side weight transfer, change the roll center and front to rear rake as well as long as you do not have ride height issues going into your driveway and garage.

Shocks can be adjusted to your usage for daily driveability or track use. I use 2 clicks from stiff f and 4 clicks rear on my Ohlins for a smooth track, and 4 and 6 for bumpy tracks. For daily drive I use 6f clicks front and 8 rear with middle hole f Tarett GT swaybar and 2 from stiff r. The idea is that all the rest of the suspension is set up for competition which is transferred through the tires. I use 18 inch either Michelin S4's and OEM wheels for daily and RE71R's and wide light Signature monoblock wheels for track. I try to match the tire footprint front to back so the car basically feels the same from daily drive to track by using 255/35/18's f and 275/35/18 r to allow the swaybars to work the same way in balance even with the difference in grip between the two sets of tires.
 

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Two suspension parts are really necessary to liven up your OEM system. Starting at the foundation is your lower control arms. Use GT3 control arms front and rear to give camber control and firm up the thrust bushing and inboard and outboard bushings as well. The additional benefit from this camber adjuster is added track width to reduce weight transfer side to side in cornering. A definite upgrade to these is Tarett CUP LCA's which have much more robust inner ball joints and a very large outboard monoball joint. The key is the solid thrust bushing with caster/wheelbase adjuster as well. This bushing changes the suspenion by not allowing front/rear wheel movement which allow for much more aggressive toe in the front for great turn in.
Then the shock/spring combination should be looked at as a combination, which means that really you need to find an old set of JRZ's, Ohlins, or PSS9's. Then have them revalved with updated springs geared to your use. Off the self new coilovers are available as package deals are available as well. I would do these two modifications as a group, springs/shocks and LCA's, as the suspenion is totally apart for either of these.

The front swaybar, which can be done later, but still does need a change to bring adjustablility. The rear is a 30 minute job to change out. Down links should be considered to allow the swaybars to give the ride adjustment without preload when corner balance is done.

After these items, a competition alignment and corner balance should be done to bring all of these components together. With this combination of parts, camber can be set to -2.7 f and -2.5 r, with front toe to toe out 5 minutes and toe in 12 minutes rear. The track can be changed to 20 mm wider each corner with the LCA internal shims. Ride height can be adjusted to your specifications, so lower is better to reduce side to side weight transfer and front to rear transfer as welll as long as you do not have special issues going into your garage.

Shocks can be adjusted to your usage for daily driveability or track use. I use 2 clicks from stiff f and 4 clicks rear on my Ohlins for a smooth track, and 4 and 6 for bumpy tracks. For daily drive I use 15 clicks front and 18 rear. The idea is that all the rest of the suspension is set up for competition which is transferred through the tires. I use 18 inch either Michelin S4's and OEM wheels for daily and RE71R's and wide light Signature monoblock wheels for track. I try to match the tire footprint front to back so the car basically feels the same from daily drive to track by using 255/35/18's f and 275/35/18 r to allow the swaybars to work the same way in balance even with the difference in grip between the two sets of tires.
Man, that’s a a laundry list of things I wish I could afford right now. What cars could these parts come off of and fit my 987.1 Boxster, as I think my only way right now would be to find these used from other cars?
 
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