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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
alright,
as some of you know i've installed a TPC ATP:2 kit on my 07 CS last month. the install went pretty well, and TPC's support during (and after) the install has been great.

the car had a few little issues post install, mainly a variety of noises plus some oil leaking from both crankcase vents (which was corrected after some reseating of the crankcase vent line and associated re-routing of the intercooler lines which were pushing against the crankcase vent line at the RHS port).

as for the noises, one was due to me missing the hookup of fuel vent solenoid, which caused a strange rattle after coming to a stop which went away once the wiring was corrected (thanks to john at matrix & tom at tpc to help find this). the other noise was a oil pump piston rattle - just coincidentally surfacing a few days after the install. the local dealer fixed this with a (known fix) replacement of the oil pump piston & spring - under warranty. this also turned out to be the cheapest porsche dealer repairs ever (<$50!). the last noise still eludes me - and i hope to figure out the cause soon (with tpc's or maybe your help!?).

the noise sounds like a vibration induced noise, and it ruins the otherwise excellent tpc aided symphony that takes place when driving the car :). i've attached a mp3 sound file (as a .mpg - plays in quicktime or rename to .mp3 and it should play anywhere). the noise can be heard at the shift around the 8th second and again at the 13th second into the clip (and again later in the clip). it produces reliably under these circumstances:

a. drive the car in normal street traffic, shift up between 2K & 3.5K RPM
b. as the foot is taken off the throttle to shift, the RPMs drop briefly and the noise emanates from the engine/tranny area
c. as soon as the revs stop dropping or increase again the noise stops.

given the pitch of the noise, i first thought it's a heat-shield vibrating against the muffler, but was wrong. after much time hunting with no success (repositioning muffler downward, poking heat-shields to see if any of them are prone to rattling, etc) i took it to an expert porsche mechanic (john at matrix) who drove & listened carefully.

his view is that the noise comes from the "upper engine area". he thinks it may be inside the intake system, and that it may be boost pressure that's causing vibration with the flap in the rear log - or some other part in the upper part of the engine bay. anyone here want to take a listen and give me your guess to what the cause might be?

some of you that read my original post (1st oregon turbo) on this forum also know that i've sought to improve on the intake manifold clamping mechanism that tpc recommends. to make this happen i developed a stainless steel spider clamp which serves as an alternative way to strap the LHS & RHS manifolds together. after many many iterations we finally were able to complete the design, which consists of a spider clamp which has taken the place of the somewhat unsightly hose clamps, but also features a top plate that further stiffens the clamp and also is designed to add a finished look to it all. the top plate features a cutout designed to receive a emblem; it is sized to fit the center cap from a 19" turbo wheel but could also take a variety of alternatives such as a tpc logo or similar.

i'm also thinking to have an additional "turbo" (in the porsche font/lettering style) laser cut into the clamp cover plate but am unsure whether that exceeds my permissable "brag" factor or whether i should just go ahead and put it in there. opinions?

i'm also still mulling whether to paint the clamp cover plate in the same silver as the manifolds or whether i should keep it in the brushed stainless look. opinions, anyone?

what i love about the cover plate is that it looks really good under the hip cover from multiple angles. for example, one can see into the engine bay quite nicely when approaching the car from the side and getting ready to open the door. the engine clamp cover's emblem also can be spotted when looking at the car from the front - one can see into the interior through the windshield, past the seats, and spot the engine clamp cover & emblem. all of these impressions make for a great, techy feel when approaching the car.

i'll post some higher quality shots once the rest of the car is fully done & dialed in, but in the meantime here's a preview - i hope you enjoy it as much as i do!

-aw1.

(PS yes the shifter cable is incorrectly routed on some of these shots - i was experimenting with this but eventually decided to stick to the stock routing)
 

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Very nicely done aw1. You're definitely not making it easy for those of us who are on the fence about putting a turbo in.

-Moto
 

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Sounds like your wastegate to me. Does it sound like pigeons?

Or is there some other sound that I didn't pick up?
 

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First off, the spider clamp looks great. I think painting it silver would look really great. Have you thought about powder coating it? After some thought, I am thinking black with or without the TPC logo. Or Red would pop as it would match the rest of the engine bay, might be a lot of red though.

Second, assuming that you have an external waste gate (as it is an aftermarket turbo i.e. non factory turbo car), it sounds like the wastegate is dumping.

I don't want to insult your intelligence on the matter, but the wastegate relieves the pressure built up by your turbo when you stop accelerating. Different waste gates have decidedly different sounds, and some experimentation with what you like may be needed.

Could be totally wrong but that's what it sounds like to me.
 

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I had a centrifugal supercharger on my previous car, which is remotely similar to a turbocharger. The times when you described when you are having the sound seems to be during times when the turbo system is trying to relieve pressure. What is happening during your shifts and decelerations is that you are closing the throttle, while the turbine is still spinning. This creates a huge amount of pressure between the throttle and turbine, and the compressed air has nowhere to go. You then have a pressure relief system that will kick in and let go of the air. It sounds like you are having an issue in the pressure relief system (in my system this was solely a blow-off valve).

From what I have understood about the turbocharger systems, correct me if I am wrong, is that the wastegate is made to regulate the the pressure coming in from the exhaust. While the blowoff valve regulates the air post compression, explicitly, relieving excess pressure. It sounds like you are having an issue with this excess pressure on decelerations, so I would check your blowoff valve.
 

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Discussion Starter #8
hey guys,
thanks for your thoughts. i'm really stumped by this noise - any help is really appreciated.

motofanatic: we have a saying that was coined by wieden+kennedy here in town: "just do it". the tpc kit creates very good value. the car becomes the ultimate sleeper porsche and the power delivery is just so great.

bmwalsh & jputt: thanks for taking a listen! well i wish it was the wastegate - i love that sound. the wastegate sound is more pop-pop-pop with air wooshing; the bad sound i'm having is more like the lid on a pot of spaghetti (or a rice-cooker) rattling as the steam escapes along the edges - except the beat frequency is higher, and the pitch is higher as well. i will try and get a better recording of it. it's *really* annoying, and sounds more like a thin piece of sheetmetal resonating, and banging against an adjacent surface. one more tidbit - the noise is actually faintly present even in the build-up of rev's - but mostly masked by the other noises (especially the exhaust trumpeting). so that's an indication that it's resonance driven, rather then boost pressure. but then again the ears of the mechanic i consulted thought it is related to the intake system...

jputt: yes powder coating would be best as a finish. but if done in silver i can't get a match, so i'd probably stick with the HQ car paint. if done in black or red powdercoat's a great option, you are right. i'm thinking all red is a bit too much... and black a little too gangster, so maybe silver with red turbo lettering?

everyone: if you have any ear for engine noises, PLEASE give this one a listen. this rice cooker noise is really marring the experience.
 

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Discussion Starter #9
What is happening during your shifts and decelerations is that you are closing the throttle, while the turbine is still spinning. This creates a huge amount of pressure between the throttle and turbine, and the compressed air has nowhere to go. You then have a pressure relief system that will kick in and let go of the air. It sounds like you are having an issue in the pressure relief system (in my system this was solely a blow-off valve).
chrisc9867,
what you say makes lots of sense, thank you for your thoughts here. it's also consistent with john's (mechanic who took a listen) thinking. the only counter point is that the noise is faintly present during acceleration, too.

does anyone know if there's a pressure relief mechanism anywhere on the intake side other than the waste gate on the turbo? i will bring this up with TPC.
 

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Discussion Starter #11
no LWFW in the car... that chatter you hear is probably the noise i'm referring too (r u hearing it at sec 9 & 13?.)

if you guys can't hear it i have to get a better recording of it, this recording is only done with a cell phone... the noise is VERY noticable when driving the car. passengers even ask about it (embarrassing, i know)!

tpc requires that a set of large "hose clamps" are used to strap the intake manifolds together. they recommend it for all cars that are driven hard or tracked - even non turbo'd cars. per tom at tpc, it is NOT for reinforcing the intake manifolds under boost (which is what the mechanic in the TPC video states), but to avoid air leaks into the intake under high engine loads.

tom suggested a clamp such as mine as an idea, and so i went off and designed this spider clamp in lieu of these "hose" clamps, which are effective (and much lower cost!) but render the motor looking a bit too "improvisational" for my taste. i guess if it's all under the aluminum cover it doesn't matter too much, but that's not the case in my car.

here's is a picture of harajuka's car with the std tpc clamps installed:
 

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I guess without a clear cover the hose clamps would be ok. But I'd be hard pressed to do that to my car. If were to do a turbo kit I'd definitely want your solution.
 

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bmwalsh & jputt: thanks for taking a listen! well i wish it was the wastegate - i love that sound. the wastegate sound is more pop-pop-pop with air wooshing; the bad sound i'm having is more like the lid on a pot of spaghetti (or a rice-cooker) rattling as the steam escapes along the edges - except the beat frequency is higher, and the pitch is higher as well. i will try and get a better recording of it. it's *really* annoying, and sounds more like a thin piece of sheetmetal resonating, and banging against an adjacent surface. one more tidbit - the noise is actually faintly present even in the build-up of rev's - but mostly masked by the other noises (especially the exhaust trumpeting). so that's an indication that it's resonance driven, rather then boost pressure. but then again the ears of the mechanic i consulted thought it is related to the intake system...
I thought I would give it a shot with the waste gate. Have you tried driving the car without your spider clamp? You mentioned it "sounds more like a thin piece of sheetmetal resonating, and banging against an adjacent surface." The clamp is probably not the source of the noise, and I certainly hope not, as it looks 100% better than the "home made" looking alternative. You may try just to be sure though.

jputt: yes powder coating would be best as a finish. but if done in silver i can't get a match, so i'd probably stick with the HQ car paint. if done in black or red powdercoat's a great option, you are right. i'm thinking all red is a bit too much... and black a little too gangster, so maybe silver with red turbo lettering?
I agree with it being rather difficult to color match silver powder coating. My suggestion for the red or black was just to add some contrast, although I agree on red being too much and black being rather gangster. I would photoshop the silver turbo lettering combo you mentioned and see what that looks like.

Or, just to throw another cog in the wheel, how about cutting out the word turbo in the spider clamp cover? I realize it may not be possible/cost effective, but it would look very cool.
 

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Discussion Starter #17
hey ajk,
thanks, it's been a fun project. re shift cables - agreed! but i can't see a way to hide or move them. that's actually something i like about the spider clamp cover, it makes the shift cables less prominent and they no longer dominate the view of the motor quite the way they do in the stock setup.

Finally an engine compartment that actually has something to look at! Do something about those shift cables and you're complete.

Nice job.
 

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Discussion Starter #18
yah fellow schwabe, got the clear cover and you can spot it in my avatar and at least one of the pics if you look closely. that in combination with the spider clamp is what makes the car a lot more attractive to gearheads :) such as me.

re noise, thanks for taking a listen. it's clear that i need to upload a proper recording to have any hopes of getting some diagnostic help...

Do you have a clear engine cover? Don't see one in any of those pictures. Car sounds normal to me and I have the X51 clutch and LWFW.
 

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Discussion Starter #19 (Edited)
jput wrote: "The clamp is probably not the source of the noise, and I certainly hope not, as it looks 100% better than the "home made" looking alternative. You may try just to be sure though."

aw1: yup, good idea, tried this and the noise is there without spider clamp, too. btw the clamp is made from some serious gauge stainless steel so it won''t resonate easily.


jput wrote: "I agree with it being rather difficult to color match silver powder coating. My suggestion for the red or black was just to add some contrast, although I agree on red being too much and black being rather gangster."
aw1: especially on a black car such as this one...

jput wrote: "I would photoshop the silver turbo lettering combo you mentioned and see what that looks like. Or, just to throw another cog in the wheel, how about cutting out the word turbo in the spider clamp cover?"

aw: i think that's a cool idea. cost shouldn't be too much an issue if done when before the clamp is shaped (too late for me). i think i'll get a 'turbo' logo off an old 70's 911, trace it, convert it to dxf and see if it could be cut into the clamp's cover plate - alone the sides. probably should do it in photoshop first!
 

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Discussion Starter #20
AW1,

Very nice work! That engine cover looks pretty good too! :)

Joel
hi joel,
yes your cover is a very nice clean design, and i like it a lot. thanks for doing such a good job in it's design, and for sending a 2nd set of "squeak fix kit" - got them, installed them, and.... they worked!
 
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