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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
hello,
i'm interested in swapping my cdr-24 for a cdr-30. searched extensively on this topic here and it looks like this question hasn't been answered yet.

i understand the connector in the back can be converted to the cdr-24 pinout. but there's also the issue of integration with the instrument cluster - i.e. will info travel between the two correctly? bottom line - has anyone here successfully swapped in a cdr-30 into a 06-08 car? if so, was yours equipped with bose premium sound (mine is)?

(i know the cdr-30 is black whereas our cars are grey in the stack and am ok with that).
-aw1

PS: if anyone has pulled/upgraded their cdr-30 and has it sitting on their garage shelf for sale at a fair price, please pm me.
 

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hello,
i'm interested in swapping my cdr-24 for a cdr-30. searched extensively on this topic here and it looks like this question hasn't been answered yet.

i understand the connector in the back can be converted to the cdr-24 pinout. but there's also the issue of integration with the instrument cluster - i.e. will info travel between the two correctly? bottom line - has anyone here successfully swapped in a cdr-30 into a 06-08 car? if so, was yours equipped with bose premium sound (mine is)?

(i know the cdr-30 is black whereas our cars are grey in the stack and am ok with that).
-aw1

PS: if anyone has pulled/upgraded their cdr-30 and has it sitting on their garage shelf for sale at a fair price, please pm me.

The answer to the RDS question is pretty easy to obtain. In the 2009 model, does the RDS display on the instrument cluster? If so, then it is very very likely that the CDR30 will display RDS on the 2007 instrument cluster. I have a hard time imagining that Porsche would have changed this, given the incremental nature of the way Porsche makes changes across model years.

To my mind the biggest unknown is security coding the CDR30. However, again given the glacial fashion in which Porsche changes the product across model years, I would think this is also likely to be possible.

Of course there are no guarantee's in any of this. If it were me and I had the interest in this upgrade that you do, and I could get the CDR30 at a reasonable price, I would go for it. Of course you will need to be somewhat facile with electronics if you do this yourself.
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
hi timbucthree,
thanks! makes total sense. no worries here about being facile with electronics, but there's a limit to how much time i can put into it... so i won't do it unless it can be done in a couple hrs or less.

dunno about the 09 RDS display - the instrument cluster looks nearly (totally?) identical...

does anyone here have an 09 or later, and experience with an 08 or earlier? if so, does the RDS readout in the tach (digital info display below the main needle) deliver the same type of info as your earlier cayman did?

the other "biggie" is that there are conflicting reports on the CDR30's bluetooth capability. some say it's there, others say it's not. i'm researching...

-aw1.
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 · (Edited)
ok, so here is the scoop, which might explain why some forum member "see" BT capability in their CDR-30, and some don't.

the CDR-30 in an 09 or later car can ship out as a base version, or as a base version with CD changer support, or as a base version with bluetooth support, or of course with both. so there are at least 4 variants / part numbers for the CDR-30.

a CDR-30 with bluetooth support will only work "in a car that's equipped with BT or phone support". i think what this translates to (not sure, someone comment pls) is that the car in question has a microphone in the interior somewhere, ready to be used by the radio's built-in phone capability or a BT phone that's connected to the radio. i know my car (07 CS without phone or BT as shipped from the factory) DOES have a microphone in the steering column just below the instrument cluster. does anyone here know if that's enough to constitute "phone support", and whether this steering column microphone is all that's needed, or whether there's other stuff that's needed?

there's more. if one gets a CDR-30 and wants it to work with BT, one needs the variant of the CDR-30 with BT support, installed in a car with "phone support", and then has to call into porsche via a dealer to get unlock codes to have the BT capability inside the CDR-30 (it's not an external module or option on top of the CDR-30) turned on. apparently a CDR-30 with BT support doesn't cost more to buy, you pay for it upon activation. that activation was quoted to me by the local dealer - $657. but it's only possible if the CDR-30 in question has it inside. does this sound right?

re USB - i don't need this but it may be of interest to others: any CDR-30 can be upgraded with USB capabilty. unlike the BT option USB capability appears to be an external module, and thus can likely be retrofitted.

re RDS - my dealer's service person says that when driving an '09, the information displayed in the digital area of the tach below the needle looks the same and display the same kind of radio information (station frequency, artist name etc) as on the 08 and earlier. so it "looks" like the RDS systems could be compatible.


-aw1.
 

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ok, so here is the scoop, which might explain why some forum member "see" BT capability in their CDR-30, and some don't.

the CDR-30 in an 09 or later car can ship out as a base version, or as a base version with CD changer support, or as a base version with bluetooth support, or of course with both. so there are at least 4 variants / part numbers for the CDR-30.

a CDR-30 with bluetooth support will only work "in a car that's equipped with BT or phone support". i think what this translates to (not sure, someone comment pls) is that the car in question has a microphone in the interior somewhere, ready to be used by the radio's built-in phone capability or a BT phone that's connected to the radio. i know my car (07 CS without phone or BT as shipped from the factory) DOES have a microphone in the steering column just below the instrument cluster. does anyone here know if that's enough to constitute "phone support", and whether this steering column microphone is all that's needed, or whether there's other stuff that's needed?

there's more. if one gets a CDR-30 and wants it to work with BT, one needs the variant of the CDR-30 with BT support, installed in a car with "phone support", and then has to call into porsche via a dealer to get unlock codes to have the BT capability inside the CDR-30 (it's not an external module or option on top of the CDR-30) turned on. apparently a CDR-30 with BT support doesn't cost more to buy, you pay for it upon activation. that activation was quoted to me by the local dealer - $657. but it's only possible if the CDR-30 in question has it inside. does this sound right?

re USB - i don't need this but it may be of interest to others: any CDR-30 can be upgraded with USB capabilty. unlike the BT option USB capability appears to be an external module, and thus can likely be retrofitted.

re RDS - my dealer's service person says that when driving an '09, the information displayed in the digital area of the tach below the needle looks the same and display the same kind of radio information (station frequency, artist name etc) as on the 08 and earlier. so it "looks" like the RDS systems could be compatible.


-aw1.

In the 07 version, such as yours and mine, the microphones mounted in the steering column are used for audio feedback to the CDR24 and PCM to provide the capability to adjust the sound system for "cabin noise". I seem to recall that with the Porsche phone option for that year, part of the option is to reconnect one of the microphones in the steering column to the phone module, this is done with a change in the wiring harness. This effectively provides non-bluetooth hands free phone operation for that year.

This same technique could work for an external bluetooth solution. The phone support option in GEN 1 involves installing the phone electronics module under the passenger seat, connecting it to the MOST bus and the radio wiring harness. Given this, and I know this is a little different from what the dealer told you, it would not surprise me at all to find out that Porsche actually put the Gen 2 bluetooth capability into a newer generation phone module that is mounted under the passenger seat. This would be consistent with my maxim that Porsche makes incremental changes to systems, especially those that have nothing to do with performance. This could be done while maintaining all of the existing electronic module interfaces in the car.

Did you get your configuration information from a technician or salesman? The later can sometimes, especially a topic like this, be somewhat less reliable.

Just a few thoughts.

NOTE: After posting this, I did a little research and found the following document - Porsche Bluetooth Compatibility. It appears that your information regarding the BT capability being in the CDR30 is reliable. There would however appear to only be two configurations. The CDR30 with without Option 619 and the CDR30 with Option 619. Option 619 is the dealer preparation that enables the BT capability of the CDR30.
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 · (Edited)
hi tim,
excellent sleuthing. thanks a lot! i think when we are done here we'll have a definitive understanding to share on a murky subject!
http://www.planet-9.com/images/smilies/gossip.gif

where *did* you find that document? treasure trove!

clarification topics:
1. it seems there's 2 parts to the BT puzzle. a. BT capability inside the CDR 30 (different CDR 30 config, with it's own p/n). b. support for it in the car (what you found is termed option 619). i.e. 619 alone doesn't do it... need the right CDR with it.

2. so if i understood you correctly, the "phone preparation module" under the passenger seat in our (gen1) cars was a remote bluetooth module/transponder, essentially?

3. further, there are indeed 2 mic locations in the steering column. rectangular patches of holes - one on the LHS and one on the RHS side of the column, just below the instrument cluster. see red rectangles in attached pic. in my car, only the RHS one has a mic underneath it. that must be the mic that is used to regulate radio volume via cabin. do you know if the 2nd mic is likely to be the same type? that would enable the procurment of another mic of the same type and i could install it in the LHS spot.

4. next i wonder how the heck we'll determine how the mic's are supposed to be cabled (whereto)... but once we know this is it should be possible to have the cdr-30 with BT support work as a hands-free host via the car's audio system and using the steering column mic.... or do you think there's some other facility needed in the car that comes with the car's phone support?

the document you sent has this critical info on the in-car mobile phone prep (option 619) near the end:

--
Preparation for mobile phone (option 619)
The option preparation for mobile phone (option 619) is a typical Bluetooth® hands-free system based on the Blue- tooth® Hands-Free Profile (HFP). The Bluetooth® option preparation for mobile phone (option 619) supports the following functions in principle:
– Pairing a mobile phone with search from the car or the phone
– Automatically connecting a paired device after system startup
– Basic phone functions (making, receiving and ending calls)
– Hands-free capability via the in-car audio system – Status displays such as network name and signal
strength
--

It seems that "Pairing", "Automatically connecting", and "Basic phone functinos" must be part of the CDR 30's built-in BT module. That would leave the Mic as the only thing needed to get the "Hands free capability...".

thoughts?

-aw1.
 

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hi tim,
excellent sleuthing. thanks a lot! i think when we are done here we'll have a definitive understanding to share on a murky subject!
http://www.planet-9.com/images/smilies/gossip.gif

where *did* you find that document? treasure trove!

clarification topics:
1. it seems there's 2 parts to the BT puzzle. a. BT capability inside the CDR 30 (different CDR 30 config, with it's own p/n). b. support for it in the car (what you found is termed option 619). i.e. 619 alone doesn't do it... need the right CDR with it.

2. so if i understood you correctly, the "phone preparation module" under the passenger seat in our (gen1) cars was a remote bluetooth module/transponder, essentially?

3. further, there are indeed 2 mic locations in the steering column. rectangular patches of holes - one on the LHS and one on the RHS side of the column, just below the instrument cluster. see red rectangles in attached pic. in my car, only the RHS one has a mic underneath it. that must be the mic that is used to regulate radio volume via cabin. do you know if the 2nd mic is likely to be the same type? that would enable the procurment of another mic of the same type and i could install it in the LHS spot.

4. next i wonder how the heck we'll determine how the mic's are supposed to be cabled (whereto)... but once we know this is it should be possible to have the cdr-30 with BT support work as a hands-free host via the car's audio system and using the steering column mic.... or do you think there's some other facility needed in the car that comes with the car's phone support?

the document you sent has this critical info on the in-car mobile phone prep (option 619) near the end:

--
Preparation for mobile phone (option 619)
The option preparation for mobile phone (option 619) is a typical Bluetooth® hands-free system based on the Blue- tooth® Hands-Free Profile (HFP). The Bluetooth® option preparation for mobile phone (option 619) supports the following functions in principle:
– Pairing a mobile phone with search from the car or the phone
– Automatically connecting a paired device after system startup
– Basic phone functions (making, receiving and ending calls)
– Hands-free capability via the in-car audio system – Status displays such as network name and signal
strength
--

It seems that "Pairing", "Automatically connecting", and "Basic phone functinos" must be part of the CDR 30's built-in BT module. That would leave the Mic as the only thing needed to get the "Hands free capability...".

thoughts?

-aw1.

According to some other research I did last night, the 619 option includes,
1) enabling the BT
2) a GSM antenna
3) the microphone for placement in the steering column

Item two is not needed, but is supplied in case you have a phone with a cradle that supports an external GSM antenna. I do not know for certain, but I would guess that this antenna is designed to be located under the plastic cowling for the windshield wippers, just like the Porsche navigation antenna. You don't really need this as the antenna in your phone (at least mine does) works just fine.

Item three is the microphone with cable for connection to the CDR30. I know the connector locations on CDR30 for this, but don't have them on this computer.

These last two items I suspect are all the difference between the options you identify as CDR30 with BT function and support for it in the car. These items are the "support for it in the car". The Option 619 provides all of it. Based on this, I would think all CDR30s actually have the BT capability built in. Porsche would be stupid to do it any other way - this is of course no guarantee against their stupidity.

Your point 2 above is a little off. The Gen 1 phone module was a standard cell phone, not Bluetooth. The under seat module came with a separate microphone with cable long enough to reach the steering column microphone location and connection instructions (as I recall). The file at this location is the instruction manual for installing the Gen 1 phone module.

Given all of this I think we pretty much have the solution. The dealer or someone else will have to 1) code the CDR30 for the 2007 model; and 2) enable the Bluetooth functionality. I do not know for certain but it seems likely from what I have seen, that the v6.0 Durametric software in the professional version would allow you to do both of these tasks. This is pretty expensive however if you don't already have the software.

To review the bidding, the following would appear to be the solution:

1) purchase a CDR30.
2) purchase the option 619 kit.
3) purchase an after market Porsche ISO to Quadlock converter harness.
4) remove the CDR24.
5) install the CDR30 with converter harness.
6) install the microphone and GSM antenna from the 619 kit.
7) close up the dash.
8) have the dealer code the radio and turn on bluetooth.
9) enjoy your new CDR30 and mobile phone.


timbucthree

An after thought:
This install would also allow you to take advantage of the CDR30 AUX Input option available from Porsche.

The details of the connector pin out mapping from CDR24 to CDR23 can be found at
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 · (Edited)
tim,
awesome.

re aux in: yep - that is 50% of the reason driving me to do this - i.e. a cost effective alternative to a dension or full swap to a avic or similar.

so what stands in the way is a suitable microphone and quadlock/iso solution.

so more details to sort out:

1. do you think any 3rd party external mic (as used with pioneer/kenwoods etc) could work, electrically?
seems connections C8 & C9 would need to be the place where the new hands free mic gets wired to, right?

but one inconsistency here: you wrote earlier that there should be two mic locations - one that controls the head-unit volume based on ambient noise (standard equip), and one that drives the phone. but your diagram only shows one mic input... what gives?

2. re "purchase an after market Porsche ISO to Quadlock converter harness."

this does not seem easy. searched extensively. there are looms made that convert in-car wiring with quadlock heads (i.e. cable in an 09 car) to iso (i.e. to go to a aftermarket head unit), but it doesn't seem possible to buy a converter harness that converts existing cables with iso heads (i.e. from an 07 car like ours) to a quadlock plug (which would fit the back of an cdr 30). the best i could find is this:

http://kufatec.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=24_33_36&products_id=142

which might be 1/2 the solution towards making a "Porsche ISO to Quadlock converter harness." what do you think? have you seen a better option out there?
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 · (Edited)
"but one inconsistency here: you wrote earlier that there should be two mic locations - one that controls the head-unit volume based on ambient noise (standard equip), and one that drives the phone. but your diagram only shows one mic input... what gives?"

on further thought, maybe the older cars with phone support required two mics - one for the head unit for volume control based on ambient noise, and a second one to route to the phone control unit that used to sit under the passenger seat?

but maybe the newer cars with cdr-30 or latest pcm require only one mic - going straight to the head-unit, and serving both purposes there. that would make sense, and also mean that no further mic is required!

update: checked with the dealer. steering column mic part # for an 08 or older is slightly different than p/n for 09 or newer.

997.646.307.02 - up to '08 - matches what's in my 07CS. price: $52.31
997.646.317.00 - for 09 or newer - same price.
 

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2. re "purchase an after market Porsche ISO to Quadlock converter harness."

this does not seem easy. searched extensively. there are looms made that convert in-car wiring with quadlock heads (i.e. cable in an 09 car) to iso (i.e. to go to a aftermarket head unit), but it doesn't seem possible to buy a converter harness that converts existing cables with iso heads (i.e. from an 07 car like ours) to a quadlock plug (which would fit the back of an cdr 30). the best i could find is this:

Quadlock - Installation Kit [33375] - $49.95 : Kufatec USA, Inc., The #1 Supplier of OEM Volkswagen & Audi Retrofit Harnesses in the World

which might be 1/2 the solution towards making a "Porsche ISO to Quadlock converter harness." what do you think? have you seen a better option out there?
This would seem to be what the doctor ordered. The ISO connectors for the other end can be ordered from Nexxia in the UK.

Buy Mini ISO Connectors online at Nexxia UK

Buy ISO Connectors online at Nexxia UK

You can also get the Quadlock connector bits from Nexxia.

Find quadlock to buy online at Nexxia
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 · (Edited)
ok, i bought a cdr-30 from another forum member and also the above referenced connectors and built a CDR-24 to CDR-30 conversion harness. things are looking promising...

but:

1. the cdr-24 has one pin/cable @ C20 ("on/off input") that does not appear to be on cdr-30. timbuchtree describes C20 on the CDR-24 as a signal that pulses and is responsible for turning the CDR-24 on and off. but there's no place for the CDR-30 to receive that per his CDR-30 pinout. so what gives?

(i powered the CDR-30 on without this cable from the car (cdr-24 connector) connected to the CDR-30 and it appears to power on/off fine without it. if the CDR-30 is left on upon ignition off it comes back on if the ignition is turned back on. if the CDR-30 is turned off prior to the ignition being turned off then the unit stay off when the ignition is turned on. seems ok...

2. all is well with the new quadlock connector conversion *except* that the former MOST fiberoptic cable connector will not fit in the CDR-30 @ the new location (within the quadlock). the fiberoptic cable ends would mate fine, but the plastic connector of the old radio won't fit the new radio so here's a problem. if the connector is removed the cable ends themselves will mate but won't stay in place. help! a CDR-30 specific MOST fiberoptic cable head is needed!! searched around, can't find anything. anyone have any ideas? what happens to this connector when someone installs an avic or other head-end? any chance someone out there has a spare one from replacing their former CDR-30 with something else?

last issue is that the CDR-30 turns on, can tune stations, play a CD etc - even scan & find a BT phone - but it will not play any sound, nor will the BT pair. i'm guessing this is how a "disabled" (VINs not matching) radio behaves and hopes this will resolve itself when the dealer reprograms the unit.... will report.

meanwhile - anyone hazard any guess or suggestion on items 1 or 2 above?

many thanks!

-aw1.
 

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I hope you are taking plenty of photos to turn this into an article when it is all working, right? :)

As for #1 above I think you are fine, sounds like its working as it should.

As for #2 it sounds like you need a different connector, can you get one from a dealer?
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
haha would love to do that once we get there; if i did an article right now it would say: "how to remove your cdr-24 and replace it with a cdr-30 and not have it work any longer" :hilarious:

anyone know whether the non-pairing & no sound issue is indeed the way a non-matching (car vin to unit) setup will behave until reprogrammed?
 

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ok, i bought a cdr-30 from another forum member and also the above referenced connectors and built a CDR-24 to CDR-30 conversion harness. things are looking promising...

but:

1. the cdr-24 has one pin/cable @ C20 ("on/off input") that does not appear to be on cdr-30. timbuchtree describes C20 on the CDR-24 as a signal that pulses and is responsible for turning the CDR-24 on and off. but there's no place for the CDR-30 to receive that per his CDR-30 pinout. so what gives?

(i powered the CDR-30 on without this cable from the car (cdr-24 connector) connected to the CDR-30 and it appears to power on/off fine without it. if the CDR-30 is left on upon ignition off it comes back on if the ignition is turned back on. if the CDR-30 is turned off prior to the ignition being turned off then the unit stay off when the ignition is turned on. seems ok...

2. all is well with the new quadlock connector conversion *except* that the former MOST fiberoptic cable connector will not fit in the CDR-30 @ the new location (within the quadlock). the fiberoptic cable ends would mate fine, but the plastic connector of the old radio won't fit the new radio so here's a problem. if the connector is removed the cable ends themselves will mate but won't stay in place. help! a CDR-30 specific MOST fiberoptic cable head is needed!! searched around, can't find anything. anyone have any ideas? what happens to this connector when someone installs an avic or other head-end? any chance someone out there has a spare one from replacing their former CDR-30 with something else?

last issue is that the CDR-30 turns on, can tune stations, play a CD etc - even scan & find a BT phone - but it will not play any sound, nor will the BT pair. i'm guessing this is how a "disabled" (VINs not matching) radio behaves and hopes this will resolve itself when the dealer reprograms the unit.... will report.

meanwhile - anyone hazard any guess or suggestion on items 1 or 2 above?

many thanks!

-aw1.

Sent you a PM regarding the 1 vs 2 mic issues.

#2 - I recall this occuring to me, but I guess I forgot to mention it. As to how to solve, you are probably in a better position than anyone to work it out. You are on the cutting edge. I agree with previous poster, this will make a great article.

#1 - This is interesting. The C20 pin in the CDR-24 turning the system on and off always seemed like a rube goldberg way to go about turning the system on and off. But in the CDR-24 that's the way it works. A smarter way to do this is to use the CAN bus interface. Perhaps this is an improvement that Porsche has made in the CDR-30. This would be a more reliable way to go and would not require C20.

Congrats, it sounds like you are very close (no pun intended).
 

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The details of the connector pin out mapping from CDR24 to CDR23 can be found at
Would be interesting to know where the rear speaker wires, as shown in the attached pdf, terminate/stop. There are these rear speaker kits available for boxsters with those rear cubby holes. Having the wires in place would lead one to think that as soon as a load, speaker, is connected to them the fader functionality would appear on the CDR-30 display.
 

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Discussion Starter · #18 · (Edited)
hi steve,
thanks for your PM. here's an update on where things stand:

1. Copper wiring: the physical wiring harness convertor as described to bridge the copper wiring seems mostly fine. however, there does appear to be a "power down" issue in that even with the CDR30 off (while installed via convertor) the battery drains. so there maybe one key signal/connection missing. i could not figure out which, or even if this is the cause/case.

2. MOST cable snap-in: the second issue is the lack of a suitable mating mechanism for the two fiberoptic "cables". their ends mate fine with their receptacles on the CDR30, but can't be easily held in place. a critical component of "completing the kit" would be to get a source for the (presumably) plastic casing/clip that could accept the existing cables, and snap them into the back of the CDR30 reliably.

3. MOST device hookup/possible reprogramming of CDR30: the (probably) biggest issue is that with the fiberoptical cables (in my case) temporarily held in place i could not get the head unit (CDR30) to talk fully with my car's downstream (MOST) components (my car has the Bose sound system). thus no sound! all else seemed fine, i.e. the CDR30 reacts fine to button presses, displays radio stations etc - even it's BT module (the CDR30 i bought has it) pairs with the phone! the big big issue: no sound. i did take the car with the CDR30 installed to the local porsche dealer who kindly spent 1+ hr with whatever diagnostic tool to see if he can program the CDR30 to talk to the Bose etc. i suspected that the CDR30 needs to be repogrammed with a code consistent with my car's VIN (not sure if this is the case) - but could not get reliable or consistent information from my dealer as to whether this is a. necessary, and / or b. possible.

the dealer's mechanic did say that his diagnostic system can "See" the CDR30 - i.e. he was able to poke at it. but he couldn't get the CDR30 to (seemingly) connect/talk to the other components.

4. the last issue (in my case) is that i was partially moved to make all this happen in order to get the factory type BT integration. however, my car only has one mic in the steering column, which (i think) is used to modulate sound volume. there needs to be a second one installed in order to use the BT integration with the CDR30. that part is available but very expensive - to the point where it calls this project in question (economically) - unless we can identify an alternate mic'ing solution.

in any event, for now my CDR24 is back in and the CDR30 is sitting on my bench for the past year, and i would love to finish this conversion if the above issues could be resolved. i'm happy to help but have kinda given up since (in particular) it seems that expertise and access to the porsche diagnostic system is needed in order to play with it further.

please keep us posted and let me know if i can help.

-aw1
 

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Discussion Starter · #20 ·
yah well i prompted the dealer's mechanic and service manager multiple time to "ask porsche for codes" and they looked at me each time as though this wasn't necessary.

maybe they don't know any better. maybe there is no such need.

what we need is someone who knows the most protocol, is familiar with the types of interoperability functions between the various most resident components, and knows whether the pieces of gear in question are compatible or not.
 
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