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Discussion Starter #1
Has anyone tried appealing to SCCA Solo classing gods to get 987.2 Cayman S moved to AS? Seems to me that the car fits better in AS than SS?
 

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None. SCCA has already posted the proposed class changes. Moving Super Street Porsche Cayman and Boxster to A Street is not one of the proposed changes. Moving the 2013 and earlier Corvette Z06 back to Super Street is also not proposed. The SEB is doing no favors for Porsche owners. Fortunately in Northern California at least there are plenty of other options for Porsche owners to autocross. The SCCA SEB doesn't seem to understand or possibly care that they are loosing Porsche owners as participants due to their over classing of Porsches.
 

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Discussion Starter #3 (Edited)
I have had decent luck with SEB making changes 50/50 on my requests. I think I can submit data to support AS for 987.2. I'll give it a shot. If I can't get car into AS I may go ASP.
 

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Discussion Starter #4
Anyone know where I can find dyno charts of 987.1 and 987.2 on same dyno? Want to compare hp and torque curves of two motors . How about gearing ?
 

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I have had decent luck with SEB making changes 50/50 on my requests. I think I can submit data to support AS for 987.2. I'll give it a shot. If I can't get car into AS I may go ASP.
A point of interest is that on national tour events and at the nationals in all cases where a Corvette Z06 was competing in A Street their time was quicker than that of the winner in Super Street. My suggestion is that if you are going to put in a request, which is probably too late for 2015, request that the Corvette Z06 be moved back to Super Street at the same time that Cayman S and Boxster S are moved down to A Street.
 

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Discussion Starter #6
One step at a time I think will net results I'd like to see. I think best argument is that 987.2 Cayman S belongs in AS. Once we get it there then can start chipping away at justification for Z06 being in AS.
 

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I am sure you know this but a 2006-2008 Cayman S is in A street. That is a big reason I recently bought a 2007 CS instead of a 2009-2012...
 

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I am sure you know this but a 2006-2008 Cayman S is in A street. That is a big reason I recently bought a 2007 CS instead of a 2009-2012...
Having competed in A Street this past year in a 2011 Boxster it is well understood that the Corvettes dominate class. My experience is that driving skill can somewhat offset the additional performance available from the Corvettes in A Street. With equal driving skills and tires the Corvette wins almost every time. The 987.2 S models were not competitive against the Corvettes when running in Super Stock on R-comps and will not be competitive against them on street tires in A Street. A solution would be to move the Corvettes back to Super Street and drop each of the Porsches a class. This might satisfy the Porsche drivers but you can be sure that others would not find this acceptable if it moved them to be no longer competitive in a class. You will find with SCCA classing there always seems to one make and model that is dominant.
 

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Looks like you'll go from having corvettes wiping the floor with you to fast Evos, STIs, and FD RX7s wiping the floor with you.
That being said, I have a prepped 986 S in ASP... its a tough class.
 

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I wrote a letter about this a few months ago, but haven't seen a response yet. It was a long letter with a lot of specific technical information, but it really depends on whether SEB fears some unicorn option package of 987.2S will become (or even be percieved as) "the car to have" for AS, if if they believe even in the best case it will be slower than a Z06. If 987.2S does get changed, it won't be for the 2015 season. Which would really only mean getting my *** kicked by Z06 corvettes instead of GT3s and Elises, but it does seem the right place for these cars.
 

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Discussion Starter #11
Looks like you'll go from having corvettes wiping the floor with you to fast Evos, STIs, and FD RX7s wiping the floor with you.
That being said, I have a prepped 986 S in ASP... its a tough class.
I'm less worried about EVOs and STI as those cars are better fit.. Yes they have wet traction advantage but they don't turn as well as a cayman. Z06 and gT3 are just so much more car than lowly cayman 987.2 S I just dont see how any reasonably experienced AX classing person could put the cayman in that class. I like SP so I may just go there .
 

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The SEB strongly considers attendance in a class and how likely it is that people are going to want to own a certain car to be competitive. The answer is that more people will race their $20k corvette over the amount of people that will show up in their $26k-$35k Cayman. Take DS for instance, the car to have was an Audi TT. People are afraid of owning, let alone racing an expensive Audi for fear of repair costs. Therefore, DS attendance suffered. Move the TT out of DS and the car to have may be a WRX. Attendance should go way up as perceived repair costs are much less, and there are way more WRX's out there, particularly people who will race theirs. For these reasons, it is unlikely a Porsche will ever be the car to have in any class.
 

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I don't think anyone is pushing for the 987.2/S to be "the car to have", merely that it be classed more appropriately. 987.2S isn't going to be the car to have in AS, but is better classed there than in SS.
 

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I don't think anyone is pushing for the 987.2/S to be "the car to have", merely that it be classed more appropriately. 987.2S isn't going to be the car to have in AS, but is better classed there than in SS.
Those that want the Porsches fairly classed by SCCA need to whine like the owners of 2013 and earlier Corvette owners did to get their cars fairly classed. About the only newer Porsche that is fairly classed is the GT3s in SS. Then again they are why the Corvette owners were successful in getting SCCA to make class changes to their benefit. You would think that SCCA would like to have the additional entries, at least at the local level, that could be obtained by fairly classing the Porsches.
 

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Those that want the Porsches fairly classed by SCCA need to whine like the owners of 2013 and earlier Corvette owners did to get their cars fairly classed. About the only newer Porsche that is fairly classed is the GT3s in SS. Then again they are why the Corvette owners were successful in getting SCCA to make class changes to their benefit. You would think that SCCA would like to have the additional entries, at least at the local level, that could be obtained by fairly classing the Porsches.
The problem with including another car, automatically means excluding another car. That is the nature of classing. Nothing can be done about that. The simple fact is that more people will show up in AS if the corvette is competitive than if a Porsche was more competitive than a corvette.

You guys may be right about it still not being more competitive than a Corvette if it was in AS. I'd have to look at the data if there even is any that would tell us the story. But Im simply stating that its not likely a $30k Porsche is going to be ultra competitive in most "street" classes. Super street is full of expensive cars, so its kind of exempt from all the other street classes in this argument.

EDIT: Looking into it a bit further, the car would still not be faster than a corvette in AS, so it probably should be there. Looks like this discussion has been had by the SEB, they missed their chance and it will be up for discussion again. So, maybe in a couple years :)
 

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The problem with including another car, automatically means excluding another car. That is the nature of classing. Nothing can be done about that. The simple fact is that more people will show up in AS if the corvette is competitive than if a Porsche was more competitive than a corvette.

You guys may be right about it still not being more competitive than a Corvette if it was in AS. I'd have to look at the data if there even is any that would tell us the story. But Im simply stating that its not likely a $30k Porsche is going to be ultra competitive in most "street" classes. Super street is full of expensive cars, so its kind of exempt from all the other street classes in this argument.

EDIT: Looking into it a bit further, the car would still not be faster than a corvette in AS, so it probably should be there. Looks like this discussion has been had by the SEB, they missed their chance and it will be up for discussion again. So, maybe in a couple years :)
Like I said, I wrote a lengthy letter to SEB a few months ago with a lot of detail arguing why 987.2S is slower than a C5 Z06 and should be reclassed to AS with the 987.1S. It unfortunately wasn't included in the 12 month reclassing, but hasn't been rejected yet, either. Hopefully SEB's response will be in the next fastrack.

More letters may help. As the prices on Boxsters and Caymans fall, interest in competing them is likely to increase.
 
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