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What oil pumps do you have on your turbo Cayman?


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Hey guys,

I'm very sorry that you have not received the replies to your messages.

The past several weeks have been an absolute circus here at TPC Racing. And with the combination of our very limited staff, a flood of work in our service area for customers getting ready for track season, as well as a crush of new turbo kit orders; we have been running like crazy to keep up/catch up! Add to this the constant stream of ECUs that need to be flashed, numerous customers that need tech assistance, and even providing tech assistance to people that purchase our products second hand!

Now add to that all of the other work that needs to be done such as; ordering parts for inventory, finding new parts, tracking orders, servicing a website, creating videos and thread for shop projects.

Then, almost weeks I lose a couple guys for several days as the guys load up for track days/test days/PCA events/IMSA Challenge events.

And still, that does not take into account all of the the work in R&D for current/future products that we need to complete. Throw in several customers seeking complete engine builds, and you can see how we have become a little backed up!

It is because of this HUGE work load that, unfortunately, we have fallen a little behind in our presence on the internet forums. Rest assured, we are not ignoring our customers or what is going on on these forums. We are trying as hard as we can to catch up and take care of everyone!

If you are having trouble contacting either Tom, Mike, Harris, or myself via our direct emails, please call the shop @ 410-799-7223 and ask for one of us, or send your emails to the general email inbox, [email protected].
For future reference, if customers are in need of technical assistance, you should always attempt to contact us directly at the shop, and not through the internet forums for the most timely response.

ALEX and HASSAAN: Would you two please both send emails to the [email protected] address detailing your questions/concerns. I will make sure that you both are taken care of in a timely manner. I just do not have the time to run back through all these posts to sort out what is what right now. Sorry for the inconvenience.



Josh B
TPC Racing
 

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First Alex, I'm no expert... I keep learning every day from members on the board. That's why I'm addicted to this forum. Most mechanical terminologies and details are astronomical science for me. That's why I always consult with TPC, my mechanic and at times with my local dealer.

The oil line that feeds the turbo is shown in my post above. The opening of the nozzle turned out to be wide as it should be 0.035" (0.89 mm). My mechanic examined the line connected to the turbo and there was no restrictor. He didn't check the line at the other end to see if it's there instead or not as he wasn't feeling well and reaching there wasn't easy due to confined space.

As for the scavenger pump, it's use is during idle at stops or at uphills. But when the car is moving the built-in engine pump is supposedly sufficient to suck the oil into the engine. Old kit owners have it on their system. It's even shown in the installation DVD video provided by TPC. But then TPC stopped providing it, as Tom explained, it restricted the engine pump during the drive. Some took a line from the oil drain line, connected it to the pump then connected the pump to the engine. This way the engine oil pump doesn't get bottlenecked by the scavenger pump during a drive.

I hope you understood what I mean.
the other end of this line - if i understand correctly (yes me i am far from an expert - too) directly coming from the oil pan?

so are you saying the line from oil pan to turbo should have a restrictor inbetween but not on the end that feeds into the turbo ?

as for the pump i guess i understand and then again i dont think TPC would have just discontinued it if the workaround you described would have gotten "best of both worlds/pumps" - pls share what mike or tom answer you, as i won tmail them withthe same questions for you did it already :thanks:
 

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The restrictor is in oil the supply line to the turbo. The drain line is from the turbo to the oil pan. There is no restrictor in the drain. The oil drains by gravity from the turbo to the oil pan. BTW I have very little to no oil leakage from the turbo bearing.
 

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Hasaan, you need to find out the following information:

  • What turbo center section do you have?
-If it's a ball bearing, then you need an oil restrictor. Don't believe my or anyone's answer. Email Garrett. They will tell you the same. If there is no restrictor, then you are over oiling the turbo. This will cause it to pool in the center section and leak like a faucet. IF you properly restrict the oil inlet, then the flow of oil out of the drain is reduced and you might not need a scavenging pump!
  • How low is your turbo compared to the drain opening on the motor?
-IF it is less than, say, 6 inches, then you probably need a scavenging pump. Use the following:
Mocal Heavy Duty Oil Scavange/Circulation Pump
PN# 17-530SL
��​
flow 1-3 GPM / 50 psi max rating

��​
350f temp rating

��​
self-priming

�� quiet low vibration operation
There is no way that the motor can suck more than this can push. I think.

Good luck
 

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Discussion Starter #45 (Edited)
Hasaan, you need to find out the following information:

  • What turbo center section do you have?
-If it's a ball bearing, then you need an oil restrictor. Don't believe my or anyone's answer. Email Garrett. They will tell you the same. If there is no restrictor, then you are over oiling the turbo. This will cause it to pool in the center section and leak like a faucet. IF you properly restrict the oil inlet, then the flow of oil out of the drain is reduced and you might not need a scavenging pump!
  • How low is your turbo compared to the drain opening on the motor?
-IF it is less than, say, 6 inches, then you probably need a scavenging pump. Use the following:
Mocal Heavy Duty Oil Scavange/Circulation Pump
PN# 17-530SL
􀂌​
flow 1-3 GPM / 50 psi max rating

􀂌​
350f temp rating

􀂌​
self-priming

􀂌 quiet low vibration operation
There is no way that the motor can suck more than this can push. I think.

Good luck
CPturbo, you seem well informed about the subject. Out of curiosity, may I ask what's your background? Your nickname indicates you have related experience.

In answer to your questions, yes it's a Ball Bearing Garrett turbo. Confirmed by TPC and confirmed by my mechanic.

I already ordered two restrictors 0.035" (one as spare) and they are on the way.

The turbo is almost the exact level of the motor drain opening. The opening is at the bottom of the engine pan... it can't go any lower. You can see it in the picture below.

As for the pumps provided by TPC to old kit owners, it was producing minimal pressure. They didn't allow using high pressure pumps. Here's a picture from a friend of mine's TPC Cayman in the UAE who had the pump then by TPC:


My question to you: are you suggesting to have the pump as in the picture on the drain line going to the bottom of the engine pan? Or should I take another line and make an opening on the side?

I'm grateful to your inputs to this thread as I'm still waiting for TPC to respond.
 

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Discussion Starter #46
The restrictor is in oil the supply line to the turbo. The drain line is from the turbo to the oil pan. There is no restrictor in the drain. The oil drains by gravity from the turbo to the oil pan. BTW I have very little to no oil leakage from the turbo bearing.
Buddy, you had your kit before me... Do you have the pump installed?


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Discussion Starter #47

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Hassan.
I can send to you old pump it work to try it , if fix your problem you can order new one or used it





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just for those gen2 drivers I got the following perfect responses from [email protected] TPC

Your 987.2 has the "9A1 type" engine which is entirely different than the 987.1 with "M97 type" engine. All of the issues on the M97 engine has been resolved by the factory with the 9A1 engine!


Q1) do we need an oil restrictor
NO! Because the oil return for the turbo on the 9A1 engine is at the oil pan which is lower than the turbo. This is a true gravity drain system. The older engine's oil return is at the valve cover which is located higher than the oil pan; the oil has to travel upward whereas on the newer engine the oil only travels downward.


Q2) do we need an scavenger pump (since you did have it on earlier kits
See answer above.


Q3) my car gives me around 390 hp - yours was 430hp - what can I do for the additional "missing" hp?
Is is 390hp at the wheels or at the crankshaft? 390hp at the wheel is consistent with what we get from the 987.2 with PDK. See attached dyno chart. 430hp at the crankshaft is what typically see with a 987.1 with manual gearbox.


Q4) would a header mod do any good? if so which ones?
No. Not on a 987.2. The older model can benefit from non-cat race headers because the stock ones don'y work as well as the ones on the newer engine.


Q5) would no cats or 100 cell cats do any good? if so which ones?
No. The 987.2 stock headers work extremely well and are very well made. No cat or 100 cell will cause fault codes and CEL.



also mike added in another mail:

work on your intercooler the plumbing must be insulated properly to give the proper performance
it is always the case dont overlook this as well use water wetter no coolant
do not restrict the turbo oil volume

--------

I will check those cooling things mike mentioned and have already informed myself about water wetter - that should be a great thing for you hassan being in such a hot country. here in germany i may not need it also i cannot let in the car for first degrees below zero would cause the cooling water to freeze with only watter wetter in use and that would crack my engine
 

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Discussion Starter #51
Hassan.
I can send to you old pump it work to try it , if fix your problem you can order new one or used it





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Thank you Abdullah, but I received an email from TPC not recommending the pump. Even the restrictor they recommended (0.08") is double the size recommended online for Garrett turbo (0.035").

Hmm...
 

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Please see my responses in Bold.

CPturbo, you seem well informed about the subject. Out of curiosity, may I ask what's your background? Your nickname indicates you have related experience. I have been turbocharging my own cars for far too long...STi, NSX, Supra TT. I have thought long and hard about turbocharging my Cayman or my 911 but no. I had to on my NSX because it is too slow, even stroked.:gossip:

In answer to your questions, yes it's a Ball Bearing Garrett turbo. Confirmed by TPC and confirmed by my mechanic. Great, now send an email to garrett and ask them. They respond to customers. Who would you believe, TPC or Garrett?

I already ordered two restrictors 0.035" (one as spare) and they are on the way. Sweet! But consult Garrett first or at least get some logical answer from TPC.

The turbo is almost the exact level of the motor drain opening. The opening is at the bottom of the engine pan... it can't go any lower. You can see it in the picture below. I suspected as much. This is a similar situation on my NSX. I used that exact scavenging pump to return oil to the top of my oil pan and so have others. It works perfectly.

As for the pumps provided by TPC to old kit owners, it was producing minimal pressure. They didn't allow using high pressure pumps. Here's a picture from a friend of mine's TPC Cayman in the UAE who had the pump then by TPC: Fine! Why not install an aluminum reservoir that is physically higher than the port on the motor where TPC drains into the pan and use that scavenging pump to pump to the reservoir. The oil would then drain by gravity to the oil pan. Done!!!


My question to you: are you suggesting to have the pump as in the picture on the drain line going to the bottom of the engine pan? Or should I take another line and make an opening on the side?

If, Garrett says to restrict the oil inlet flow (and they will) you may not have a problem after that. I say email Garrett first, then try the oil restrictor, then look at installing the reservoir and pump. If none of that works, then worry about the turbo.

I'm grateful to your inputs to this thread as I'm still waiting for TPC to respond.
No problem Hassaan! I want your car to work.
 

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Thank you Abdullah, but I received an email from TPC not recommending the pump. Even the restrictor they recommended (0.08") is double the size recommended online for Garrett turbo (0.035").

Hmm...
Do you have an idea why not install the pump now , what we do, we continue with pump OR remove it




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Discussion Starter #54
Do you have an idea why not install the pump now , what we do, we continue with pump OR remove it




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Buddy, I just hung up the phone with Mike. He didn't want me to install the pump to make things simple. I can't recommend or suggest anything for you since it seems each has his own configuration.

He agreed to install a 0.06" restrictor... It turned out our TPC turbines are custom built from different manufacturers not only Garrett. I told him Garrett is recommending a size of 0.035" for their stock ones. But Mike totally disagreed that this isn't good for TPC custom-built units.
 

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i asked mike alot about the turbo before i got this answer some time ago:

the turbo is not a garrett but a TPCRacing turbo manufactured by us
the turbine is similar to the schwitzer family T04 the compressor is Garrett design
but we literally manufacture the turbo we have to as most of the T04 is not in production any longer
 

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Ok, here's an update:

After removing the steel oil restrictor (not brass or stainless) that came with the kit, it turned out that one side had a 2.7 mm opening and the other side had a 3.2 mm. So I had one custom made that matched the thread with a 1.5 mm opening as TPC demanded I don't go any smaller.

Currently as I type this, the mechanic is installing everything back.

On a side note, I was happy to find my air intakes clean from oil residues... only some dust was there.

Below are pictures of the restrictors from both ends. On the left is the old one.

I hope this ends the oil leak episode.



 

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Discussion Starter #58
Is it new news


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Abdullah,

Here's the outcome after 1400 km (900 miles) drive since I installed the 1.5 mm oil restrictor:
1) boost gain... about 7 kpa. Not sure if it's because of the restrictor or headers insulation. But I'm getting the same boost now with the Controller off as I was getting when it was on Lo Boost.
2) zero oil residue in the air intakes.
3) can't confirm about oil leak as the car hardly sits for the oil to accumulate. But the oil level dropped 1/2 liter (1/2 quart) only after driving the car hard and the exhaust tips got black charcoal on them. If I drive the car normally, the oil level doesn't drop and the exhaust tips stay clean.

The opening of the restrictor I used is 1.5 mm in diameter... I may switch it with 1 mm as recommended by Garrett.
 

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I have had nothing but trouble with my 1 year old turbo leaking and blowing oil. Last fall TPC did a rebuild of my turbo. When I got it back it was worse than when I sent it in so I had a scavenger pump installed. It made a big difference but there are still issues. I just got back from trying the new setup at the track. After each run there was noticeable amounts of oil leaking from the body of the turbo on both sides. I am thinking the rebuild was not successful. I am thinking I need a new turbo altogether. I am not sure who makes their turbo but I am a bit concerned about the quality.
 

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I have had nothing but trouble with my 1 year old turbo leaking and blowing oil. Last fall TPC did a rebuild of my turbo. When I got it back it was worse than when I sent it in so I had a scavenger pump installed. It made a big difference but there are still issues. I just got back from trying the new setup at the track. After each run there was noticeable amounts of oil leaking from the body of the turbo on both sides. I am thinking the rebuild was not successful. I am thinking I need a new turbo altogether. I am not sure who makes their turbo but I am a bit concerned about the quality.
You just brought back my nightmare from the past... God, it was fun to drive but a curse to maintain.

My advice is to fix it then sell it. It'll burn your money faster than fire.
 
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