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I've been asked by several people if I am ordering the new GT4 and the answer is simply No. I would just say No, but everyone wants reasons, so here are some of MY reason (don't have to apply to anyone else) and in no particular order.

1) The 4.0L engine does not rev as quickly as the older 3.8L engine, if there is anything I would want more of in the GT4 it would be the ability to get on the boil faster/sooner and be in the thick of the HP/torque curve faster. The 4.0L engine does not have the immediacy of the older 3.8, I suspect this is because it is suffering from being a 3L that has been both bored and stroked. The longer stroke is slowing down the spin up time and in my opinion just isn't as "fun" or as tractable of an engine as the 3.8L. Can you modify it? Sure, but short of developing your own block/bore/stroke combo there isn't much you can do other than lightening the flywheel and maybe adjusting the ECU to be more responsive (assuming Porsche has left some overhead). I get the financial reasons why Porsche didn't use the GT3 engine but I'm just not a fan of this new frankenmotor they have assembled.

2) Price, ok everyone is talking about the price hike. While I expected the 2020 GT4 to be more expensive than the 2016 GT4, I think the difference isn't warranted by the changes in the car. Getting fatter/heavier and more expensive is never a good thing. If there were some really good enhancements in the last 4 years then maybe I would think the price hike was warranted but I'm sorry Apple Car Play isn't worth the difference. :hilarious:

3) Non Limited Run - GT cars are supposed to be limited runs so I think Porsche is hurting the GT4 and GT cars in general here. First the GT4 isn't going to hold its price like it has in the past if the run isn't limited, it just becomes a "fancy Cayman" and second if Porsche is willing to make all the GT4s anyone wants to buy then why not the GT3 or GT3 RS? This could be opening the pandoras box of future GT car owners demanding that Porsche make as many as they want, or conversely it splits the GT car group into the "special" group and the "not so special" group. Which group do you want to be in? :)

4) Performance - 10 seconds faster around the 'Ring is inconsequential. 99.9% of that simply stems from the bump in power so the car can achieve more speed in the straights. I see nothing telling me that times around the Hockenheim ring have dropped significantly, in fact with the 718 GT4 being substantially heavier than the 981 GT4 there is every chance that on smaller/tighter tracks the car will be SLOWER than the prior generation. Autocrosses may bear this out as well, especially with no PDK option to game the system.

5) Weight - Absolutely no reason for the car to gain as much weight as it has, the EU isn't requiring lead soft bumpers so I'm not buying that all this weight gain was for safety reasons alone. The engine is probably a good chunk of that weight gain as are some of the cosmetics and plumbing needed for things like an updated infotainment system which ought to be an option delete. Speaking of which, where are all the option deletes to help save weight?

6) Looks - Not that there is anything wrong with the looks for the 718 GT4, but to my eyes it is too similar to the 981 version. 4 years down the road and a new model designation, I want a larger visual difference. It just doesn't seem like enough to me, again seems like Porsche penny-pinched keeping a lot of stuff the same or highly similar in order to save costs so they could maximize profits by jacking up the price and announcing unlimited availability. Please, everyone come buy our over priced highly optioned Cayman with a GT4 badge stuck on the back. :)

7) Missed Opportunity - In a world where a 4 door Tesla Model 3 sedan is turning similar performance numbers (and in some cases better) than a GT4, I think Porsche needed to up its game more with the GT4, perhaps introducing some new hybrid technology or "electric boost" or something to help set the GT4 apart from the prior GT4 and other GT cars and show Porsche is advancing towards the future. I'm at a lack at the moment to think of anything substantially new or different debuting in the GT4, anyone? Buehler? Buehler? Instead of being a potential platform for change or experimentation, Porsche played it safe by slightly tweaking the old GT4 and attaching a larger vacuum option to buyer's wallets.


I'm sure there are probably more reasons but these are the ones that come to mind at the moment.

I guess if there is one good piece of news it is that 981 GT4 used prices have up-ticked a bit after the 718 GT4 was announced which means I'm probably not the only one thinking that the 2016 model may be the car to own in the long run...
 

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I am a Cayman guy. The Cayman fits me like a glove. I had a 981 series base Cayman and now I have a 718 Cayman S. They are both great cars. I am loving the mid-range torque of the 718 Cayman S. It is so usable on the road, and the power delivery is "right now."

The flat six howls. The turbo four growls.

I am delighted to see that Porsche is bringing back the flat six in the Cayman GT4 and Boxster Spyder. As much as I would love to own a Cayman with a flat six again, I am not really interested in the current configuration because:

1. I am nearly 70 years old and I will not be driving my car on the track. I do not want a fixed wing.
2. A 30 mm drop in the suspension is too low for the road. My 718 CS has a 10mm drop and I am always concerned about scraping the chin spoiler. A front axle lift system would fix the problem.

3. Since the new GT4 is a track car, I am concerned about a harsh ride. You can take a road car and drive it on the track, but you can't always take a track car and use it on the road.

My hope is that Porsche addresses these issues with a touring model. If that becomes a reality, sign me up! Chances are I would be willing to give up the "turbo rush" for that hair raising "wail" again. I miss it..

I won't know for sure until I get behind the wheel. So I will wait and see and enjoy the amazing 718 turbo four in the meantime.


 

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Would be nice to confirm that the new engine spools up slower than the old one. Don't get me wrong, I am with you, slow engines are bad.

I understand the implications of bore vs. stroke, however there is so much new about this engine. Not that it is likely but there could be e.g. reduced inertia.

Have you seen that blog post where somebody bases the 991.2 engine (compared to 991.1) because it has a worse power/weight ratio and overall doesn't look nearly as "racing heritage" as the 991.1 engines?
 

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I trust them to get the engine right, at least until reviews suggest otherwise. The GT3 engine was never on the table; it's too expensive by an amount that probably runs into five figures.

And they seem to have a good excuse for the weight gain, which is that the EU no longer allows the weight of the lightest option configuration to represent the model as a whole. Unless you checked a bunch of options like PCCB and radio and A/C delete, you didn't get a car that weighed what was advertised. I'm fine with this regulatory change and with Porsche's explanation of it.

But they are still playing stupid games with the marketplace, even at a time when the IC engine is entering its Gotterdammerung phase. No, I don't want a manual top that weighs 12 pounds less than the automatic top. No, I don't want a Rice-a-Roni Jabroni rear wing. I want a Boxster S with a NA flat six engine.

Oh, wait, I already have one of those. :dance: So: thanks but no thanks, Porsche.

Give me a call when you're ready to get serious.
 

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The weight gain is misleading. Previously Porsche would state the lowest weight based on options, not based on standard equipment. This comes from AP himself who said the apples to apples difference is about 30 kg (66 lbs) due to some equipment being standard now that wasn't before as well as the new exhaust filter.
 

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I've been asked by several people if I am ordering the new GT4 and the answer is simply No. I would just say No, but everyone wants reasons, so here are some of MY reason (don't have to apply to anyone else) and in no particular order.

1) The 4.0L engine does not rev as quickly as the older 3.8L engine, if there is anything I would want more of in the GT4 it would be the ability to get on the boil faster/sooner and be in the thick of the HP/torque curve faster. The 4.0L engine does not have the immediacy of the older 3.8, I suspect this is because it is suffering from being a 3L that has been both bored and stroked. The longer stroke is slowing down the spin up time and in my opinion just isn't as "fun" or as tractable of an engine as the 3.8L. Can you modify it? Sure, but short of developing your own block/bore/stroke combo there isn't much you can do other than lightening the flywheel and maybe adjusting the ECU to be more responsive (assuming Porsche has left some overhead). I get the financial reasons why Porsche didn't use the GT3 engine but I'm just not a fan of this new frankenmotor they have assembled.

2) Price, ok everyone is talking about the price hike. While I expected the 2020 GT4 to be more expensive than the 2016 GT4, I think the difference isn't warranted by the changes in the car. Getting fatter/heavier and more expensive is never a good thing. If there were some really good enhancements in the last 4 years then maybe I would think the price hike was warranted but I'm sorry Apple Car Play isn't worth the difference. :hilarious:

3) Non Limited Run - GT cars are supposed to be limited runs so I think Porsche is hurting the GT4 and GT cars in general here. First the GT4 isn't going to hold its price like it has in the past if the run isn't limited, it just becomes a "fancy Cayman" and second if Porsche is willing to make all the GT4s anyone wants to buy then why not the GT3 or GT3 RS? This could be opening the pandoras box of future GT car owners demanding that Porsche make as many as they want, or conversely it splits the GT car group into the "special" group and the "not so special" group. Which group do you want to be in? :)

4) Performance - 10 seconds faster around the 'Ring is inconsequential. 99.9% of that simply stems from the bump in power so the car can achieve more speed in the straights. I see nothing telling me that times around the Hockenheim ring have dropped significantly, in fact with the 718 GT4 being substantially heavier than the 981 GT4 there is every chance that on smaller/tighter tracks the car will be SLOWER than the prior generation. Autocrosses may bear this out as well, especially with no PDK option to game the system.

5) Weight - Absolutely no reason for the car to gain as much weight as it has, the EU isn't requiring lead soft bumpers so I'm not buying that all this weight gain was for safety reasons alone. The engine is probably a good chunk of that weight gain as are some of the cosmetics and plumbing needed for things like an updated infotainment system which ought to be an option delete. Speaking of which, where are all the option deletes to help save weight?

6) Looks - Not that there is anything wrong with the looks for the 718 GT4, but to my eyes it is too similar to the 981 version. 4 years down the road and a new model designation, I want a larger visual difference. It just doesn't seem like enough to me, again seems like Porsche penny-pinched keeping a lot of stuff the same or highly similar in order to save costs so they could maximize profits by jacking up the price and announcing unlimited availability. Please, everyone come buy our over priced highly optioned Cayman with a GT4 badge stuck on the back. :)

7) Missed Opportunity - In a world where a 4 door Tesla Model 3 sedan is turning similar performance numbers (and in some cases better) than a GT4, I think Porsche needed to up its game more with the GT4, perhaps introducing some new hybrid technology or "electric boost" or something to help set the GT4 apart from the prior GT4 and other GT cars and show Porsche is advancing towards the future. I'm at a lack at the moment to think of anything substantially new or different debuting in the GT4, anyone? Buehler? Buehler? Instead of being a potential platform for change or experimentation, Porsche played it safe by slightly tweaking the old GT4 and attaching a larger vacuum option to buyer's wallets.


I'm sure there are probably more reasons but these are the ones that come to mind at the moment.

I guess if there is one good piece of news it is that 981 GT4 used prices have up-ticked a bit after the 718 GT4 was announced which means I'm probably not the only one thinking that the 2016 model may be the car to own in the long run...
Just no would have sufficed....
 

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WRT to the non-limited run point - Porsche opened up their books after the demand for the 981 GT4 exceeded their expectations. I remember being told that I could still put my order in for one, 6 months after the "books had closed" (early 2017) and Chris Harris's youtube review of the GT4 with his stating that you couldn't get one even if you wanted one. So the 981 GT4 is not a rare beast, not even down here in Australia where a lot of flippers bought them and tried to shift them for years after the fact at over RRP ($220-230K AUD)- actually it is the 981 Spyder that is the rare one. Now that the 718 GT4 has been announced, resale values for the 981 GT4s have dropped $70K AUD to $150-170K AUD - quite a number of them with less than 10,000kms on the clock. There are currently 14 examples for sale on our popular online car classifieds site (Australia's population is 25 Million)
 

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I am not ordering it because

- price is ridiculous
- Already have a Spyder
- 10 sec faster around the ring is nothing because the ring has been smoothed over a lot and and tire compounds have improved massively so not really a faster car as far as I can tell right now
- I don't like the side profile of the 718 especially the roof area. don't like the front lights. weirdly enough I like the rear.
- not a fan of petal wheels
- not any inspiring colors other than gentian blue
- weight increase
- can't comment on slower revving engine but my god if it's true then definitely a no because I barely can stand the current rate of revs which is why I am looking in to a lot of engine upgrades as soon as the warranty runs out. prob next year a bunch of headers, high flow cats, protune gonna go on there.

Why I would like to order one is as follows:
- euro delivery
- euro delivery
-euro delivery
- possible pdk
 

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I've been asked by several people if I am ordering the new GT4 and the answer is simply No. I would just say No, but everyone wants reasons, so here are some of MY reason (don't have to apply to anyone else) and in no particular order.
I'm with K-Man S on this one. Having owned four Caymans to date, I had been looking forward to getting a 718 GT4, and was at the top of my local dealer's list to order one. But I was underwhelmed when the car was finally announced last week, for all the reasons on K-Man S's list.

So instead (and I can't believe I'm saying this as a diehard Cayman supporter for so many years) I spent the weekend shopping online for a 2014 or 2015 GT3. With the GT4's base price around $100,000, adding in the options I want it'll likely cost me $120,000 or so. I can get a similarly-equipped, low miles 2014-15 GT3 for the same money. Similar weight to the GT4, but with an extra 60 HP, a 9000 rev limit and an engine warranty through 2024. And probably less depreciation over an anticipated five years of use than a new, and newly non-exclusive, GT4. Sadly, this was an easy call.

So I'm selling my beloved, track-prepped Cayman R and trading up to a GT3, as soon as I find the right one. (I'm keeping my 718 GTS daily driver, though. Love that car, even though it does sound a bit like a pissed off Subaru!)
 

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I trust them to get the engine right, at least until reviews suggest otherwise. The GT3 engine was never on the table; it's too expensive by an amount that probably runs into five figures.

And they seem to have a good excuse for the weight gain, which is that the EU no longer allows the weight of the lightest option configuration to represent the model as a whole. Unless you checked a bunch of options like PCCB and radio and A/C delete, you didn't get a car that weighed what was advertised. I'm fine with this regulatory change and with Porsche's explanation of it.

But they are still playing stupid games with the marketplace, even at a time when the IC engine is entering its Gotterdammerung phase. No, I don't want a manual top that weighs 12 pounds less than the automatic top. No, I don't want a Rice-a-Roni Jabroni rear wing. I want a Boxster S with a NA flat six engine.

Oh, wait, I already have one of those. :dance: So: thanks but no thanks, Porsche.

Give me a call when you're ready to get serious.
The EU is killing Porsche and they apparently don't see it. Why don't they move manufacturing to TN or GA and build the car the way it should be built. Let them put a smaller engine in the Europeon model and ship it back to them. It's never going to get better with the EU from now on.
 

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I'm with K-Man S on this one. Having owned four Caymans to date, I had been looking forward to getting a 718 GT4, and was at the top of my local dealer's list to order one. But I was underwhelmed when the car was finally announced last week, for all the reasons on K-Man S's list.

So instead (and I can't believe I'm saying this as a diehard Cayman supporter for so many years) I spent the weekend shopping online for a 2014 or 2015 GT3. With the GT4's base price around $100,000, adding in the options I want it'll likely cost me $120,000 or so. I can get a similarly-equipped, low miles 2014-15 GT3 for the same money. Similar weight to the GT4, but with an extra 60 HP, a 9000 rev limit and an engine warranty through 2024. And probably less depreciation over an anticipated five years of use than a new, and newly non-exclusive, GT4. Sadly, this was an easy call.

So I'm selling my beloved, track-prepped Cayman R and trading up to a GT3, as soon as I find the right one. (I'm keeping my 718 GTS daily driver, though. Love that car, even though it does sound a bit like a pissed off Subaru!)

Good luck! Keep us posted on your purchase process! A GT3 would be phenomenal!
 

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The EU is killing Porsche and they apparently don't see it. Why don't they move manufacturing to TN or GA and build the car the way it should be built. Let them put a smaller engine in the Europeon model and ship it back to them. It's never going to get better with the EU from now on.
Just the beginning of electrification for all European manufacturers. Pretty hard for Porsche to tool up a new facility for a niche market.


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Discussion Starter #14
Well until we get both cars on a scale we won't really know, regardless I think they should have carved weight out, not added more in... aftermarket exhaust systems are quite a bit lighter, why couldn't Porsche do that?
 

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Discussion Starter #15 (Edited)
Which is laughable at best.... :hilarious:


(In response to the mid range torque post, it didn't quote the post for some reason but honestly mid range torque in the GT4 is laughable, same for GT3 and most any other ICE car once you've driven an electric car you realize how buzzy and underpowered gas cars are, there are lots of reasons to love a GT4, the crisp handling and darty point and go nature of the car, the sublime balance, but mid range torque is not and never will be a reason to own a GT4)
 

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I'm with K-Man S on this one. Having owned four Caymans to date, I had been looking forward to getting a 718 GT4, and was at the top of my local dealer's list to order one. But I was underwhelmed when the car was finally announced last week, for all the reasons on K-Man S's list.

So instead (and I can't believe I'm saying this as a diehard Cayman supporter for so many years) I spent the weekend shopping online for a 2014 or 2015 GT3. With the GT4's base price around $100,000, adding in the options I want it'll likely cost me $120,000 or so. I can get a similarly-equipped, low miles 2014-15 GT3 for the same money. Similar weight to the GT4, but with an extra 60 HP, a 9000 rev limit and an engine warranty through 2024. And probably less depreciation over an anticipated five years of use than a new, and newly non-exclusive, GT4. Sadly, this was an easy call.

So I'm selling my beloved, track-prepped Cayman R and trading up to a GT3, as soon as I find the right one. (I'm keeping my 718 GTS daily driver, though. Love that car, even though it does sound a bit like a pissed off Subaru!)
F yeah a pissed of Subrau on steroids!!



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Which is laughable at best.... :hilarious:


(In response to the mid range torque post, it didn't quote the post for some reason but honestly mid range torque in the GT4 is laughable, same for GT3 and most any other ICE car once you've driven an electric car you realize how buzzy and underpowered gas cars are, there are lots of reasons to love a GT4, the crisp handling and darty point and go nature of the car, the sublime balance, but mid range torque is not and never will be a reason to own a GT4)
Have to agree with you on torque in Porsches and European cars in general- they're weak. I looked at a Hellcat because I love power- but I wanted balance too, and the Porsche was better. But yes, European cars have no ***, as they say, compared to an American V8 muscle car.
 

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The heavy and restrictive exhaust particulate filters are an EU requirement, not a US requirement. The new Speedster 911 model is sold in the US without the filters, but has it's ECU detuned to deliver the same power output as the EU filter equipped version.

What I'm getting at here, is will the GT4 be sold in the US without the filters? If so, then there's a nice chunk of weight already saved. Furthermore, could also allow for more power. Hopefully we can get more details on this as the production date gets closer.
 

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The EU is killing Porsche and they apparently don't see it. Why don't they move manufacturing to TN or GA and build the car the way it should be built. Let them put a smaller engine in the Europeon model and ship it back to them. It's never going to get better with the EU from now on.
The EU doesn't care what they build in the EU, only what they sell in the EU. If they wanted to build a car for the US market, they could do that either here or there, it wouldn't matter in the least. (Well, if you've seen videos from the Corvette factory versus the ones taken in the Porsche factory, you might have a different opinion about that.)

It's the idea that one car should be built to serve every worldwide market that needs to go. I've ranted about the stupidity and pointlessness of the major manufacturers' "World Car" strategy before. Selling the exact same car from Sheboygan to Shanghai never really paid off the way the manufacturers thought it would, and will only become less economical as the next few years go by.
 

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If you already have a 981 GT4/Spyder then you have what you need... 'nuf said. ;)

If you don't have one and can afford to build out a new 718 GT4/Spyder then this is a great time to be a mid-engine Porsche fan! :cheers:
 
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