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Discussion Starter #1
This is a serious question and I hope I do not get flamed for it. Particularly from 981 and 991 owners, I would like to know why the 991 is worth $25,000 more for identical equipment but 25 more HP. With the coming engine changes and rumors it would seem that Porsche really wants to push people to the 911 from the 981. I honestly cannot see why the 911 is worth the extra money. Thank you.

Larry
 

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Because its the "911"
Once the 981 starts making lists like Wheeler Dealers » The Most Iconic Cars of all Time I am sure Porsche will add a larger $ value to them
Close but more like this

The 50 Best Sports Cars of All Time: The Top 10 and this

9 reasons why Porsche 991 is the leading sports car model | Inquirer Business and this

Sorry, Automakers: You’ll Never Beat the Porsche 911


I would like to know why the 991 is worth $25,000 more for identical equipment but 25 more HP.
I assume you are comparing a stripped 981S to a stripped base 991 and asking what do you get for the $25K? Well you got to remember there are “enthusiasts” and then the general public and you are only going to get “enthusiasts” responses here and not the other 95% of answers

  1. A bit faster
  2. 2+2 configuraton, which is important for those with babies and small children
  3. Better rear suspension
  4. The name plate
  5. AWD is an option
  6. Cabrio is an option
  7. Because it is a 911.
Approx 25% of 911 sales are the base car (based upon the last time such numbers were released). If the ratios hold true today, PCNA sold 10443 911s in the US in 2014 of which maybe 2600 were base cars. PCNA sold 3383 Caymans of all kinds in 2013. I’m using 2013 so GTS cars aren’t in the mix. The ratio of Base to Cayman S I think used to be about 40/60. So maybe 2029?

So I’m pretty confident to say Porsche sold significantly more Base Carreras than Cayman S cars in any year. Of course to get a true answer, you will have to poll the base Carrera owners. But I’ll guess the answers are closely tied to:


  1. 2+2
  2. A tick quicker
  3. AWD is an option
  4. Because it’s a 911.
With the coming engine changes and rumors it would seem that Porsche really wants to push people to the 911 from the 981.
They always want you to buy the 911. Why would a company want to sell you the cheap products when they can sell you the more expensive ones and make more profit. This is no different than the 914/924/944/968/986 etc. and will be no different in the next generation cars. The entry level cars get you into the marque. Once you are hooked, they want you to buy 10 more 911s over the rest of your life. And the strategy works. PAG makes a LOT of money. :) They know exactly what they are doing.
 

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Cayman S to 911 is a $20k difference and 25hp from what I see. Is there truly no extra standard equipment on a 911? I'm too lazy to look. $20k isn't that crazy considering most of us probably spend that in non-performance options.
 

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Discussion Starter #5
Seems like "Because it is a 911" is the best answer. Actually, I took my CS, many options but not performance, and compared it with a base 911 with the same options and the difference was $20k, add another $10k for the Carrera S. Those are the 2 WD models, obviously. 2+2 is worth something to some, certainly. Yet, it is hard to identify a clear driving advantage worth $20k, except the iconic 911.
I won't be the only one faced with this question and decision as Porsche unveils its 2017 MY. Some have seen my other posts so you know I am not a fanboy, I have to rationalize the extra money to stay with a flat 6, even with a turbo. I cannot rule out a 911 but it seems I must drink the KoolAid first. Could very well happen because it is a very nice sports car and there are not many other alternatives...just what Porsche wants.

Larry
 

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I don't know the technical details - but there is likely a reason why so many track cars (out of the box) are 911 and not Caymans.
 

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Seems like "Because it is a 911" is the best answer. Actually, I took my CS, many options but not performance, and compared it with a base 911 with the same options and the difference was $20k, add another $10k for the Carrera S. Those are the 2 WD models, obviously. 2+2 is worth something to some, certainly. Yet, it is hard to identify a clear driving advantage worth $20k, except the iconic 911.
I don't know the technical details - but there is likely a reason why so many track cars (out of the box) are 911 and not Caymans.
You are talking base 911 here, right? Not the S car and above.

I'm not sure how many people regularly track the base car. That is why I pointed out that the public perception is far more important than the perception of enthusiasts. I think for 90% of the buyers, you got to look at what they want:

1. the fact you can option it as an AWD is a thing in the snowbelt.
2. or spec it as a Cabrio in the sunbelt is a thing.
3. But the big thing is the 2+2. You got a tick quicker and can bring your young family. This is not a small thing. It's significant to young families.

If you are talking S or higher, that's vastly different. Remember the S cars are faster around the Ring than the previous GT3 or Turbos.

Try this in your Cayman. This is more of what real life people do rather than the tiny percentage of people who track their cars.


Or this


or this

 

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Discussion Starter #8
Seems like you are suggesting that the 2+2 is a major reason and selling point. I truly wonder how many people buy the 911 because it is 2+2 as opposed to the iconic Porsche? To me it seems that the 981 is such pure driving fun that I cannot imagine any reason to go to a 911 for 25 HP, because I do not need 2+2. I suspect that the status of an iconic Porsche is a better selling point, plus not owning an "entry level" car. Anyone who can spend $110-130K on a car does not want entry level anything.

Larry
 

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Well if you accepted Porsche marketing, a 991 is a step up from a 981. I wrote a post about how I don't think so and hence don't think a 911 is worth the extra cost over a cayman/boxster from a practical experience standpoint. Yes its .x second faster to 60, but such things aren't what make you want to drive and buy a car. BUT it has been pointed out that people view these things differently - for another person the slight differences in the 911 is nostalgia enough to want the car more.

I would say 'if you have to ask, you probably don't understand'... hence for you it is not worth it. You are in good company though...plenty of people are like this, viewing the 911 as overpriced and settle on a cayman.
 

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Seems like you are suggesting that the 2+2 is a major reason and selling point. I truly wonder how many people buy the 911 because it is 2+2 as opposed to the iconic Porsche? To me it seems that the 981 is such pure driving fun that I cannot imagine any reason to go to a 911 for 25 HP, because I do not need 2+2. I suspect that the status of an iconic Porsche is a better selling point, plus not owning an "entry level" car. Anyone who can spend $110-130K on a car does not want entry level anything.

Larry
I looked at a 911 in part due to the 2+2. The girls are still young enough to fit in the back seats and thought it was fun to drive.
the base model 3.4 is the same engine in the current car and didn't seem (to me) worth paying the extra cash for. The gap was more than 25 k though as we were looking at convertibles. More like 30 -40 equipped with a few things. Then you're in S territory.
Why even look at a 911?
Friend suggestions because of their experience with previous models.
"It's a 911!" Is what I routinely heard. - that icon status goes a long way.
The "entry level " model as you put it has more than enough power and engagement to satisfy most drivers (non enthusiast)

It's a fantastic car and I will get one eventually but it will be lightly used S most likely.
:2cents:
 

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Seems like you are suggesting that the 2+2 is a major reason and selling point. I truly wonder how many people buy the 911 because it is 2+2 as opposed to the iconic Porsche? To me it seems that the 981 is such pure driving fun that I cannot imagine any reason to go to a 911 for 25 HP, because I do not need 2+2. I suspect that the status of an iconic Porsche is a better selling point, plus not owning an "entry level" car. Anyone who can spend $110-130K on a car does not want entry level anything.

Larry
I am with you on this one Larry, even if I had even more money then what I am spending on the incoming BGTS, I still don't see the 911 as my car! I really don't want the 2+2 configuration, reminds me of my old 280Z, there were 2+2's of those and they were never thought of the 2+2 as the better version...;) And as for "iconic" I get that too but it is irrelevant to me, in fact I never gave the Porsche a second look until I saw my first Boxster and it wasn't until I began to think convertible that I considered my 2003 an option. I still feel that way today and could have bought a base 991 for what I am spending on the BGTS.

Oh and if they ever opted to put AWD in a Boxster I would be all over that, they could do it like the 918 Spyder, engine driving the rear wheels and the electric motors for the front, wouldn't that be a blast! :dance:
 

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Just opinion, the #1 reason is "because 911" call it history, mystique, marketing, hype, whatever, it's a big factor.

I also agree the 2+2 configuration is significant. Not just for the little jump seats, but the feeling of space. Even though the front of the cabin dimensions are essentially the same- same seats, center stack etc. When I went from a 997 C2S to a 987 Cayman 2.9, the feeling of space between the two was the most noticeable thing initially. Some like the bigger feel of the 911.
 
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Discussion Starter #13 (Edited)
Thanks, all. These are some thoughtful and helpful responses. It has affirmed my belief that you buy a 911 because you want a 911, and all that goes with it in terms of history and pride.
I will test drive one so that I know I have, although I cannot believe that it will feel better than a Cayman. I have about 18 months to figure out whether I need or want to stay with the Porsche tribe and if that is worth the extra money. I do know that I will not drive a 4 cylinder anything as my fun and cruising car.

Larry
 

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Seems like you are suggesting that the 2+2 is a major reason and selling point. I truly wonder how many people buy the 911 because it is 2+2 as opposed to the iconic Porsche?
You can't really separate the two. Think about it. You get the icon AND can take your kids with you AND be a tick quicker? What young family wouldn't want that.

If you are single, well it doesn't matter.

Just opinion, the #1 reason is "because 911" call it history, mystique, marketing, hype, whatever, it's a big factor.

I also agree the 2+2 configuration is significant. Not just for the little jump seats, but the feeling of space.
I forget about the space, the world's biggest glove box in the back also is not an insignificant thing, something to add. You're right.
 

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Here are a couple interesting articles pertinent to this discussion
C&D Boxster GTS Instrumented test
C&D 911 4S Instrumented test
Both tested cars had PDK so it seems like a fair comparison. The 911 4S is only 1/10 second faster on both the 0-60 and the rolling start 5-60 than the BGTS. On the Skidpad both are the same at 1.05g. The difference in prices for the models tested is $45k. That is a major premium for only 0.1s. Clearly more than performance, I agree that it is 911 brand recognition and status.
It is interesting to note that the performance statistics of the BGTS are far better than those advertised by Porsche, but the 911 4S didn't meet the advertised performance of 0-60 at 3.9s.
I'm still breaking in my BGTS, but I'm eager to see if the performance C&D measured is representative or just an outlier.
 

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At $12k per seat you should get more room.
 

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Here are a couple interesting articles pertinent to this discussion
C&D Boxster GTS Instrumented test
C&D 911 4S Instrumented test
Both tested cars had PDK so it seems like a fair comparison. The 911 4S is only 1/10 second faster on both the 0-60 and the rolling start 5-60 than the BGTS. On the Skidpad both are the same at 1.05g.
You left out two things. 0 - 100 that difference is nearly a second, 0 -130 its almost 2 seconds. And AWD is slower Try 2012 Porsche 911 Carrera S - Porsche 911 Carrera S Road Test with Specs, Data Panel – RoadandTrack.com 0 - 60 in 3.5, 1/4 in 11.8, 981GTS 12.6 Also 3.5 here Porsche 911 Carrera S (991) lap times and specs - FastestLaps.com 1/4 in 11.9 at 118MPH

And of course the ring times are far off 7.38 vs 7:58 for an S (no established GTS time).

You must realize the 991 folks look up the same articles and did that 4 years ago. ;) And its nots a 45K difference. You spec PDDC, SPASM, PDK, PTV (not sure if PCCB specced). Thats it. Your looking at a $112K car MSRP. The press cars are loaded with the performance builds won't buy.

Just saying.

Statistics ... hmm. :)
 

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But you know what? For the base Carrera, for 98% of the people its the logo and 2+2. And since they base Carrera easily outsells the Cayman S (and probably the S and GTS combined) the public seems to agree.
 
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