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Not talking about the current facelift. Talking about whether there will be a MkII Cayman to replace the MkI. Apparently nothing has been signed off on. There are no plans or prototypes out there testing right now. And with the sale of Porsche to VW there is a chance a new Cayman would be competition against something they might want to offer from Audi. Could this generation of Cayman be it?
 

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I've noticed that looking at dealer inventories there seem to be a lot fewer caymans than other models. That doesn't seem to indicate that dealers are investing significant amounts of capital in making the caymans readily available which, in turn, may affect the number of units sold and ultimately whether the model is a success in the long-term.
 

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Going on various dealer sites there are plenty of Boxsters and 911's. Caymans are pretty rare, with the exception of dealers that have left over 08's and 09's that have had trouble selling for some reason. My thoughts are that the Boxster has not impacted 911 sales near to the extent the Cayman has and Porsche has made a deliberate decision to keep the available units less, as their margins are better that way. Assuming a 10% gross margin on an average $60K +/- sale versus the same percentage on an average $100K sale, it is understandable, as their income is far better. A second guess is that potential purchasers who want something other than the Boxster are still in the market and purchase a 911, even though they can't get the Cayman at the lesser cost. I'll be interested to read responses to see if there is any back-up to this.
 

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In a perfect world Porsche would lower the price of the Cayman and make up the difference in volume. Since that is not usually Porsche M.O. what if they streamlined the line-up to create a larger "step-up" to the Carrera? This would eliminate the overlap between a highly spec'd Cayman S and a base Carrera.

$40k-$50k MSRP
Audi TT

$50k-$60k MSRP
- Boxter (base)
- Boxster Spyder

$60k-$70k MSRP
- Cayman (same as current S)
- Cayman "club sport" or whatever they decide to do in a similar vein to the Boxster Spyder.

$90k+ MSRP
- Carerra (same as current Carrera 4 S)
- Cabrio & Targa (C4 spec)
- GT3
- Turbo & Turbo Cab

$180k+ MSRP
Lamborghini/Bentley

If you want a rear wheel drive sports coupe you buy the Cayman. All Carrera models switch to standard all wheel drive except the specialist GT3 which remains RWD and nowhere near Cayman in terms of cost. The "cheapest" Carrera would start around $90,000 creating a nice buffer for the Cayman. Can you create a $90k Cayman? Of course. But all those people specifying $75k-$80k Caymans are not going to anguish over their decision and neither will their friendly Porsche salesperson.

Is this what I want? Not really. Would this allow the Cayman to be developed further and sold in greater numbers without threatening the Carrera? In theory yes. In practice who knows?
 

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As background...I have always loved mid engined cars for their handling...last spring after not having a sports car for a number of years...went out to buy a 911...out of curiousity I drove a Cayman....no more decision....for me a vastly superior drive.....but a harder sale for the typical sales guy...since the 911 is much better known
 

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Might be something like this with a Porsche badge on the hood.







































and also





However, this car is significantly smaller and, uncharacteristically for an Audi concept car with clear sporting intentions, it’s rear-wheel drive.

The latest e-tron, revealed at the Detroit motor show, is also more than just a one-off showcase for Audi’s zero-emissions plans; it confirms that Audi chairman Rupert Stadler has already given the go-ahead for a new, small, mid-engined sports car.

According to Audi sources, this new e-tron concept provides strong clues to a new production car that will be sold as the R4. It will share key components with the showroom version of Volkswagen’s BlueSport concept, and possibly a new entry-level Porsche roadster, when it arrives in showrooms sometime between now and the end of 2013.

Picking up on the styling theme from the first e-tron, the low-slung concept has a traditional sports car silhouette, with a long bonnet, a heavily curved roofline and a stubby rear end. However, the body is a lot edgier, with hard crease lines, taut surfacing and a heavily sculpted rear end providing it with a highly contemporary look that sets the tone for the upcoming R4.

The old red Volkswagen Golf GTI screams to a halt. Before we know what's happening, its young driver leaps out and is firing questions in a broad southern German accent. We're pretty sure it went something like this: "How much? When? What engine?" It was all we could do to stop the guy from jumping into the empty seat next to us.

Still, you can't blame him for getting a little excited. Right now, there is only one Volkswagen BlueSport in existence, and apart from its unveiling at the Detroit auto show in January, this is the only time it has been allowed in public.

Originally conceived as a one-off concept car, the compact mid-engine roadster has an internal development code name, raising hopes that it will go into production as a spiritual successor to the 914, the mid-engine roadster that VW developed and Porsche sold.

The BlueSport was developed in a back-to-basics approach, with an emphasis on simplicity and low weight. At its heart is a new mid-engine platform that VW says should allow it to bring the BlueSport to showrooms at prices starting at about $30,000, depending on what engine it decides to put in back.

At the moment, the rear-wheel-drive concept rolls with VW's 168-hp, 2.0-liter, common-rail diesel four-cylinder and a six-speed dual-clutch gearbox with shift paddles on the steering wheel.

Other engines are under consideration for production, says Mario Fabiano, the car's project leader. They include the 265-hp, 2.0-liter, turbocharged, gasoline direct-injection four recently confirmed for the Scirocco R. Can you say junior Boxster?

The BlueSport is a confident-looking car, low and flat and hunkered down on the road. Although you can expect the styling to be refined by the time it reaches production, the one thing that won't change much are the car's basic dimensions. At 157.4 inches long, 68.9 inches wide and 49.6 inches tall, it is roughly the same size as the Mazda Miata, a car that played a role in prompting VW to push ahead with the BlueSport.

For a car of such compact dimensions, there's a good deal of space in the cabin, and with two cargo holds with a combined capacity of 6.4 cubic feet (3.9 cubic feet up front and 2.5 cubic feet in the rear), there's enough luggage space for a couple of overnight bags.

The keep-it-simple mantra extends to the manually operated fabric roof. It has a heated rear window and stows in a well behind the cabin. The roof assembly weighs just 59 pounds and is designed so that you can erect it from inside the car.

Rarely have we driven a concept car with such mechanical proficiency. In fact, the car seems to have skipped the usual early-development processes and headed straight into the testing phase.

We drove almost 50 miles in the roadster, over a variety of roads. It was more of a proper test drive than the simple look-and-barely-touch trial we usually get with other concept cars.

There is no key; just touch a starter button mounted within a bezel that also controls the PRND functions of the gearbox, in place of a traditional lever.

The raspy engine sounds more like a gasoline unit than a typical diesel. And there's nothing lacking in the way the BlueSport gets along. A step on the throttle unleashes a hearty turbocharger whistle, along with a heady turn of speed.

The concept car has been limited to 62 mph, but you really need only half of that to discover there's real intent here. A distinct rearward weight bias sees the BlueSport squat and hug the pavement as you accelerate hard out of a third-gear corner.

The performance is partly a product of the low 2,640-pound curb weight, which gives the BlueSport a weight-to-power ratio roughly the same as the Miata's. It will hit 62 mph in 6.6 seconds and reach a top speed of 140 mph when not reined in by electronics, says Fabiano.

With the Blue TDI technology, VW claims it can deliver almost 42 mpg in combined city and highway driving. It also complies with California's strict emissions regulations.

There's more to the BlueSport than outright speed, though. Displaying a level of response and composure well beyond what you might expect from a one-off, the chassis flows in concert with the camber of the smooth-surfaced German country roads. The brakes, taken from the Golf R32, inspire confidence.

The steering, an electromechanical setup borrowed from the Polo, is light in feel but direct. The car's low weight introduces a degree of eagerness at turn-in that's not apparent in any existing VW model. It adds up to a wonderfully deft cornering feel, and with 19-inch aluminum wheels shod with 235/35 (front) and 245/35 (rear) Pirelli P Zero Nero tires underneath, you can be assured of plenty of grip.

Without any meaningful suspension tuning, the ride is controlled and possesses enough composure to allow you to attack pockmarked roads, rather than simply ease over them as with most concept cars. The suspension combines the front MacPherson-strut setup from the new, fifth-generation Polo with the rear multilink arrangement from the upcoming four-wheel-drive 4Motion versions of the sixth-generation Golf.

This is an exciting car. Good to look at and fun to drive, it should be able to hold its head high on the dynamic front with cars costing twice its projected price.

But there's only one BlueSport-for now. So you can't buy one yet. Production versions of the new roadster should start heading to North America sometime in 2013. When it does, expect a long waiting list.

SPECS

Volkswagen BlueSport Concept

ON SALE: N/A (concept)

BASE PRICE: $30,000 (est)

DRIVETRAIN: 2.0-liter, 168 hp, diesel I4; RWD, six-speed DSG

CURB WEIGHT: 2,640 lb

0-60 MPH: 6.6 sec (mfr)







 

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Going on various dealer sites there are plenty of Boxsters and 911's. Caymans are pretty rare, with the exception of dealers that have left over 08's and 09's that have had trouble selling for some reason. My thoughts are that the Boxster has not impacted 911 sales near to the extent the Cayman has and Porsche has made a deliberate decision to keep the available units less, as their margins are better that way. Assuming a 10% gross margin on an average $60K +/- sale versus the same percentage on an average $100K sale, it is understandable, as their income is far better. A second guess is that potential purchasers who want something other than the Boxster are still in the market and purchase a 911, even though they can't get the Cayman at the lesser cost. I'll be interested to read responses to see if there is any back-up to this.
Guys - let's also remember, the 911 is the flagship Porsche car. It has been around forever and it is the car most buyers relate to when they think about a Porsche. The Cayman hasnt been around that long and it hasnt really established itself yet. Most people I speak to dont even know what a Cayman is (they think I mean Cayenne). The point is, through time, as more and more buyers buy the car, the more it will make its mark and the more you will see them on the lot. I do believe that Porsche is VERY careful to not make the Cayman overly competitive to its flagship product - 911. Why else dont you see a Cayman 4S??? Or a more suped up version like a Cayman Turbo? The point is that Porsche is very careful to not make the Cayman canabolize the 911. When I bought the car, I almost bought a base Carrera. Three things changed my mind: 1 - Everyone I speak to seems to agree that the Cayman is a better looking car and 2 - the performance wasnt that much better and 3 - I like the dual trunk. Now, who is to say I wont buy a Carrera 4S next???? I am strongly thinking about it. Why? because of the all wheel drive. We need a Cayman 4S!!!!! Sorry for the rant. :dance:
 

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We need a Cayman 4S!!!!! Sorry for the rant. :dance:
I wouldn’t want a Cayman 4S. It would only add weight and increase drivetrain losses to 25% or more like some other all-wheel drives.

Porsche didn’t do it on the GT2 and GT3, but it might help the typical Carrera driver reduce the ills of the rear engine handling.
 

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The fact that the next Cayman might share a platform with the R4 does not mean it has to look like the R4. The wheelbase and overall proportions will be similar and it will probably share the door and suspension components. At least the doors will be aluminum.

The new flat 6 is scalable so the rumoured 4 cylinder will hopefully still have the boxer engine. a Turbo 4 combined with electric motors driving the front wheels (like the 918) could provide the performance of a 6 at lower emissions with more low end torque and the benefits of 4wd without the addional drivetrain components.
 

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Caymen haven't sold well for a few years now - even before the downturn they were selling in low numbers.

The problem is a Cayman is an enthusiast's car, and many Porsche drivers are "aspirational."

Thus if you're say a dentist and want a Porsche, you'll buy a 911.

The Boxster has the convertible advantage going for it, so people who want a convertible sports car convertible will get it, especially now that the Honda S2000 is gone.
 

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I wouldn’t want a Cayman 4S. It would only add weight and increase drivetrain losses to 25% or more like some other all-wheel drives.

Porsche didn’t do it on the GT2 and GT3, but it might help the typical Carrera driver reduce the ills of the rear engine handling.
+1, the only reason you have AWD in Porsches is to save the casual 911 owner from going off-road and to be able to put down higher HP in such cars as the turbo.

Absolutely do not need AWD in the Cayman.

The only reason Audi went to AWD was because the HP of their larger sedans could not be put down reliably through FWD without extreme wheel spin and torque steer.

I too believe the Cayman has very limited appeal. Most casual drivers would rather opt for a Boxster. I am glad I have what I have. I will most likely never sell my Cayman and even with some 500HP I can asure you, you do not need AWD.
 

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Caymen haven't sold well for a few years now - even before the downturn they were selling in low numbers.

The problem is a Cayman is an enthusiast's car, and many Porsche drivers are "aspirational."

Thus if you're say a dentist and want a Porsche, you'll buy a 911.

The Boxster has the convertible advantage going for it, so people who want a convertible sports car convertible will get it, especially now that the Honda S2000 is gone.

Most sensible answer.
 

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The Cayman gets "Car of the Year" awards and has auto journalist writing about how its better than the 911...(but don't let Porsche hear you say that)

Can you imagine a car company having to dump a car because they built it too good?

Why it sells in such low numbers??? The base price is fine, but the options add-on $$$ makes many buyers think twice about pulling the trigger:( for a $75k 300hp car.
 

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The question you should be asking is, where is the next-gen 911 and Boxster? The reason for this is that these models will carry most of the development cost of the Cayman. :beer:

I would not be too concerned with platform sharing. Lest we forget, the current R8 provides the platform for the Gallardo and both cars have their own unique look and feel. :)

Most of the pictures of these Audi prototypes scream "Next Gen TT", they will not drive and feel like a Porsche 911, Audi have their own agenda. :taunt:

Will there be a next gen Cayman? I believe so, i believe that the limit of the 911 platform has reached a peak. One of the Autofarm representatives said that Porsche can make the GT3 no faster than it currently is. The only way to make the car quicker, is to use a mid-engined platform. :beer:

Porsche have to continue to develop the Cayman as it is their Plan B incase Audi, Aston or even McClaren have a go at attacking their higher-end cars in the context of performance, at a price they cannot match. Although in the case of Aston and McClaren, this is very unlikely as they cannot match the volume or economies of scale Porsche can. :burnout:

Besides, Porsche will not drop the Boxster, which means the Cayman is far cheaper to produce. :dance:

I believe it is only a matter of time before Porsche develop a Cayman RS, Porsche have a way of satisfying their customer base. Just expect to pay near 911 GT3 prices for it. :hilarious:
 

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I would not be too concerned with platform sharing. Lest we forget, the current R8 provides the platform for the Gallardo and both cars have their own unique look and feel. :)

Most of the pictures of these Audi prototypes scream "Next Gen TT", they will not drive and feel like a Porsche 911, Audi have their own agenda.
Audi R4: R8's Little Brother
E-Tron Detroit Concept Hints at New Mid-Engine, Two-Seat Sports Coupe
February, 2010 / By Paul Horrell

Audi is preparing to give the R8 a smaller brother.

The Audi e-tron concept from the North American International Auto Show is a whole lot more than a one-off electric sports car. The body is designed as a compact gasoline-powered, turbocharged mid-engine two-seat four-cylinder sports coupe.

If confirmed -- and the ever-expansionist Audi board appears to be well disposed towards it -- it would go on sale about 2013.

Overall length is shorter than a Mazda MX-5. It's no coincidence that it's about the same size as 2008's super-sweet VW Bluesport roadster concept. The existence of each of those German concepts makes the production viability of the other more likely -- the two brands can share some of the development costs. Suspensions, powertrains, brakes, electronics and so on would be shared.

They wouldn't be badge-engineered clones, because they look completely different and the Audi will have a hybrid-material body incorporating a lot of aluminum -- like the TT. And the VW is a soft-top.

Audi boss Rupert Stadler says that the concept e-tron is a vision of how a smaller relative to the R8 might be styled.

The concept's designer is Wolfgang Egger, who also penned the concept Audi A1. Egger told us a mid-engined car below the R8 is a more exciting prospect than the R8 itself, because more people can have one and it's not such an intimidating and serious thing. 'It's the realization of a dream for me.'

In terms of design, little needs to change for a production car, as the air management and packaging are fully worked.

Egger says the all-LED lighting is pretty much what Audi would aim for. "We aim to be a leader in high-tech lighting and you will see it in our other cars, too."

The R4 will not be a TT successor, as the front/AWD TT will continue. Egger says a production R4 would sell for more money engine-for-engine than the TT because it's more premium and special. We understand that there won't be any V-6 version of the R4. For Audi the four-cylinder engines go well above 260 horsepower. In a car so small and light, with an S-Tronic transmission, that ought to deliver more than enough performance.

As for the Detroit e-tron concept, it's smaller than the e-tron at Frankfurt, which Audi promises to put into limited production by the end of 2012. The baby brother is RWD rather than the bigger one's quattro. The Detroit e-tron uses carbon panels on its aluminum spaceframe, and with the simplification and size reduction, is less than 3000 pounds including its 45-killowatt-hour lithium ion battery pack, so the range is 155 miles and the 0-60 time well under 6 seconds.

Audi is not confirming that this Detroit e-tron will make production in electric form, but the company has a team of 100 engineers working on electric drive systems. CEO Rupert Stadler says that e-tron name could be pegged to a whole range of electric Audis, just like quattro covers a range of all-wheel-drive models.


Audi R4 - Audi E-Tron Detroit Concept Hints at New Mid-Engine, Two-Seat Sports Coupe - Motor Trend
 

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I highly recommend that people read an editorial at www.thetruthaboutcars.com called "In Defense of the RX-8." The author's point is very appropo to this thread: does the public value great handling cars??? The Cayman, in either base or "S" flavor is one of a handful of great handling cars on the market and that is it's great virtue. Neither hp nor torque is outstanding relative to many other cars. The question is whether enough people place a value on this virtue to make the Cayman viable. I certainly hope so, but I frankly do not know.
 
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