[Wolfpack987]

Re: The Worst Review of any Porsche I've read

That AutoZine article was fantastic, and also highlighted my concerns about the engine's long term durability.

 

[Wolfpack987]

Re: The Worst Review of any Porsche I've read

It shouldn't be a surprise when there are concerns about the durability of small engines which produce high HP because of turbocharging. Porsche better hope that their new buyers are uninformed, and won't have any idea of how many cylinders produce the high HP and of course how that power is produced.

Well yes, obviously a smaller engine with more power, and turbocharger, could have questionable durability. I was more referring to the highlighted details pointing out that this 2.0 (and 2.5) liter powerplant is more complicated than most turbo 4s. 2 stage intercooler system, wrap around exhaust manifolds, active engine mounts to help quell vibrations - sounds like a nightmare to service.

Admittedly it is a small fraction of sales, but it doesn't make any sense to spend R&D euros on new engines if the intention was to kill the car. As someone pointed out, market focus may be more for Asia, China in particular, and less US. That would make more sense. They will sell more of everything in China. That is a win-win. So what if they don't sell a few Boxsters and Caymans in the US. China's huge growing market will probably more than make up for it. Other Asian countries as well. If we, here in the US don't like it, we can always 'upgrade' to the 911. No company spends R&D money on a product on which it does not expect to increase sales and market share globally. I see Audis, MBs and BMWs on the streets of Delhi and Bangalore. And not just the low end cars. And all crawling along at 5 kmph. A PDK Cayman with a turbo four will do just fine. Putting the top down in a Boxster in Delhi would be committing suicide. A most miserable place.

The US is far and away Porsche's biggest sports car market. China is just a blip on the radar in comparison. Sports cars don't sell over there, and this new 718 isn't going to change that. It's worth noting that Porsche has already been selling downsized engines in China to mediocre success.


I agree that politics don't belong in most automotive discussions, but all the engine downsizing being done by manufacturers is being done purely because of politics. So it's somewhat difficult to dance around that fact. Based on the science of it all I believe this is a fad of sorts and that in the long run we'll have plenty of new sporty petrol vehicle options for decades to come.

 

[Wolfpack987]

Re: The Worst Review of any Porsche I've read

---
A lot of truth in this post.

When the 986 on the drawing boards, Porsche was in a way different place financially. The 911 was carrying the company, but sales were down and they almost went bang.
The 986 did it's job--bring in more buyers for the Porsche brand and eventually create more 911 buyers. Now, there are multiple other Porsche models covering other market niches while creating future 911 owners.
Can't help but think that makes the Boxster/Cayman models now a bit redundant since they have the SUV/sedans doing the same thing--bringing more buyers into the fold. Add to that, B/C sales continue to shrink suggesting this model has run it's course--outside of China--and may be relegated to the list of Porsche models no longer being made.
That will be a loss for the automotive enthusiast, but will likely go unnoticed by the majority of car buyers.

For almost all of Porsche's history they've offered more than one sports car offering. And sports cars are their identity. They'd be foolish to ignore their heritage and piss on their brand image by continually diluting the brand. It will catch up to them eventually, just as it's doing the same to BMW now.

 

[Wolfpack987]

Re: The Worst Review of any Porsche I've read

Those 3829 mid-engine sales for China include 1,341 911 models...and I don't think we should count them as mid-engine...even tough the 911 engine is moving more and more over the axle with every new model.

So the actual mid-engine number for China in 2015 is 2,488

2,488/6663 = 37.34%

Not sure if one can call 37% a blip on the radar but it's way less relevant than 57%

Gratitude for you, and chows4us, I was under the impression that China's Porsche sports car sales were considerably less. My lesson for the day!

Though I wouldn't count on them passing us any time soon - the US's economy is in considerably better shape at the moment (though I suppose that can always change with the tip of a hat).

 

[Wolfpack987]

Re: The Worst Review of any Porsche I've read

Are you referring to the turbos, the 4 cylinder, or both? Most seem to be upset about the 4 cylinders.

You say it has changed for the worse, but there is undoubtedly a myriad of people who would say, "Wow! This power is intoxicating! I never expected a Boxster to be this muscular. I love the car's character."

Turbos. I understand the problem. They're a love-it-or-hate-it kind of deal. They invariably do change a car's character. They lower the redline indirectly, cause a very different linearity of power, and muffle the exhaust sound. Many Porsche enthusiasts probably prefer NA.

Besides sound and impossible-to-notice engine balance characteristics, how would a 4 cylinder significantly change the character? If anything, it's more likely a horribly negative association between 4-bangers and economy motors that disgusts us. But a 4-cyl done right can be a beautiful thing, as in a Honda S2000 or Lotus Exige S.

And likewise, plenty of 6 cylinders suck arse, as in my RDX or RX350. Even the V8 in my SL550 is quite dull.

You're also missing the other big negative for the 718 - noticeable increased weight.

Can you elaborate on that from a technical POV? Pardon my ignorance. I would like to understand why turbos don't actually increase MPG. Thank you!

Turbo engines (compared to NA engines) only increase mileage when the turbo isn't spooling. I.E. only under mild throttle application, like those used to pass the EU and EPA tests. If a turbocharged engine has an equal (or greater) power rating than an NA engine, there's no magic to where that additional power came from - it's still from burning hydrocarbons. Hope that helps.

 

[Wolfpack987]

Re: The Worst Review of any Porsche I've read

^^you can always look to meth injection to help with cylinder cooling

 

[Wolfpack987]

Re: The Worst Review of any Porsche I've read

If the "estimated" EPA fuel ratings are found to be the actual fuel ratings, then what's all this non-sense about CAFE have to do with anything? It looks like fuel efficiency stayed the same or got worse.

 

[Wolfpack987]

Re: The Worst Review of any Porsche I've read

You have to be careful of BMW models, however. Especially any of them equipped with "EfficienctDynamics". 5 series V8 models equipped with this feature trash their batteries by design. New car battery required at every oil change interval. That's ridiculous:crazy:

 

[Wolfpack987]

Re: The Worst Review of any Porsche I've read

I have had my 718 for about 4 weeks and still had my 2014 981 for the first two weeks I owned the 718. People are saying the only thing that is better on the 718 is performance. Well I have to adamantly disagree with that. I think the 718 is better in almost every way. I drove both a few times after I received my 718 and every time I was in the 981 I couldn’t wait to park it and get into the 718. Here are some of the differences that I observed.
1. In the low RPM ranges the 718 seemed to be waiting to accelerate. Just giving it a little gas made it jump and the acceleration is great. I enjoyed the sound in the low RPM range just as much as the 981. Above 5000 RPM, the 981 did sound better but around town the 718 was great. With the top down, the 718 seemed to be louder and sounded better than the 981.
2. The 718 now has better brakes than the 981
3. Suspension has been upgraded
4. Steering response is quicker and you seem to be more in control
5. Voice connect seems to understand me better than my 2016 Macan
6. You can mix FM and AM stations on the favorites page on the radio so you don’t have to change bands to switch between your favorite AM and FM stations
7. Nav database is much larger and it is easier to enter new waypoints.
8. You can start and stop the nav guidance from the map page
9. The next turn guidance displays better and there are a few more functions available
10. The blind spot warning indicators are more visible and get your attention better than on my 2016 Macan. They work at a lower speed than on the Macan. It is a lot more useful in slow stop and go traffic.
11. The adaptive cruise control is much better than on the Macan. The Macan is very rough, doesn’t slow down until the last minute and you are ready to start slowing yourself before it does. The Macan will shift down 2 gears and rev up to 5000 RPM if you change from a slow traffic lane to an open lane.
12.The 718 slows sooner when traffic slows and accelerates smoother. If you change to an open lane it will shift down 1 gear but with all its torque you really accelerate without increasing your RPM that much.
13.If you engage the sport mode you will be in the turbo range most of the time so there is no turbo lag. Of course economy goes down. But why do you own a sports car unless you enjoy it every way you can.
14.In my normal driving around San Diego, I am getting a little less mileage than on my 981 but I can’t resist pushing it every time I get a chance. On a 60 mile trip through the hills and winding roads from San Diego to Julien I got 29 MPG.
15.I really liked my 981 but the 718 is just so much more fun to drive. The only thing that I liked better on the 981 was if you turned off the engine cutoff function when you stopped, it would stay off then next time you drove. On the 718 it resets to the on position every time you restart the car. So now I automatically push the button every time I start the car so the engine doesn't shut down when I stop.

I appreciate your insight and willingness to share with us your experience with both a 981 and 718, however most of your positives for the 718 I simply am not concerned with. As someone that cares mostly about the interaction between man and machine and not much else items 6-15 wouldn't even be on my radar when sports car shopping. Again thanks for the education.:thanks:

 

[Wolfpack987]

Except they do have a choice, it just doesn't come from Porsche. Whether you're talking about a Corvette, an M2, or an F-Type, there are other sports cars you can buy for the same price as a Cayman/Boxster. None of these cars are as lightweight and agile as the 718, but they're all fun-to-drive, high-performance cars, and each offers other advantages instead -- performance for the Corvette, practicality for the M2, and style for the F-Type.

You're forgetting about the excellent Lotus Evora and it's variants. It's mid-engined, lightweight, and equipped with 6 cylinder power.

 

[Wolfpack987]

Really? You can't wrap your head around the lack of refinement found in a 4 cylinder engine, compared to a flat 6? The vibrations inherent from that design aren't a figment of our imaginations.

 

[Wolfpack987]

How in the world do we have several pages of discussion on solutions to lowering/eliminating the number of annual car crash/fatalities, and NOBODY has brought up the easiest solution?

Government mandated higher levels of driving skill. Things are so basic these days I'm convinced a trained monkey could pass a driving test and get a license. The standard in the US is so low I'm fairly certain a lot could be gained just by educating people about the basic laws of physic. Or require that driving tests must be conducted in the rain, or at night. Or hell, force driving students to drive a car (in a controlled environment) until they spin out, so that they'll KNOW what they did to cause the spin. At least require them to experience a full panic brake stop and become accustomed to what ABS feels like through the pedal.

This isn't exactly a moonshot project here.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Wolfpack987]

Auto sales in general are down, yes. But on the whole performance variants of most cars are actually selling fairly well. One would think that such sales health would extend to any all new (err, mostly new?) sports cars.

As an aside I've only seen three 718s out in the wild, and all on the interstate in and around Charlotte. I live in Raleigh, and haven't seen a single one here. I've seen more Ferrari 458's around Raleigh in 2017 than 718s! (3 to 0) :crazy: