[erik_plus8]

Re: The Worst Review of any Porsche I've read

I also think the reviews have not been that conflicting. Basically all of them are saying the same thing, just that the EVO article was a little more "graphic" and up front honest. For those who think the 2.5l is vastly different, FWIW - trust me when I say it's not... I drove a 718S at the launch event here May 16th and came to more or less the same conclusions. Can't tell if the PDK would be as busy as in the 2.0l EVO drove since I drove it all the time in "Manual" mode, to be able to judge turbo lag/throttle response without having to take eventual downshifts into account. As for NVH - exactly the same. Sound is cr*p all over the rev range but more frustratingly (and susprisingly) the vibrations were what really killed the experience for me. I drove to and from the test drive in my M/T CGTS which gave me a good and realistic benchmark.

 

[erik_plus8]

Re: The Worst Review of any Porsche I've read

So here's a hypothetical question. What if the 982 was built with a small flat-8, similar in power and torque to the 981? Now THAT's a car I would get in line for, even if there was no performance improvement over the 6 cyl.

Ohhh. Me too!

 

[erik_plus8]

When you have been listening to it for 16 years, when they take it away it is a deal breaker. But that is just me.

Cheers

Or dreamt about it for 30 years before being able to buy a flat 6 car at age of 40. Deal breaker also for me. New mid engined Porsches are no longer interesting to me. If/when I get the trade-in itch the GTS will be replaced by a used GT4, a .2 GT3 (if M/T, and if I can afford, and if my dealer lets me get on the list, ...). But for now I am just too happy I pulled the trigger in time.

 

[erik_plus8]

There is lag in the 718S. Between 0.9s on low revs to 0.5s on high revs. Never less. You will feel it in the car, but you can also see it in the right instrument where there is what seems to be a reasonably accurate boostmeter.

Maybe all people are not concerned because they're used to the lag from previous cars but some people, me included, will be.

All reviews I've seen by journos I generally trust have mentioned lag.

What quite few have mentioned though, but what really bothered me, was the vibrations. I did expect sound and lag issues but the vibrations from the engine all through the rev range, surprised me. With them, together with the noise, the premium feeling from the 981 went away totally.

 

[erik_plus8]

So, are we going back to discussing the 718 reviews any time soon?

 

[erik_plus8]

Well said sir, the problem is most of the recent reviews are very good Not surprising really, as it is ...

Well, not quite... This is from the latest EVO magazine - EVO 230. Comparision between Cayman 718S, BMW M2 and Audi TT RS. Not really glowing, do you agree? Also, the 718S is in fact not quickest around their test track - that victory goes to the TT...

So, if some 718 reviews are in fact getting less critical I feel that it is more down to a fading memory of its predecessor...

 

[erik_plus8]

It was a wet track, so in this case I'm not surprised that an AWD car with substantially more power and torque would pip the 718 S (also I'm not sure who the driver was, if it was Henry or Dan the times are probably somewhat meaningless - journos are never going to have the ability to get the most out of car in slippery conditions whether it be on road or on track - all those times say to me is that all three cars are reasonably fast and the most suited to slippery conditions at 8/10 ths delivered the fastest time)

The article was written based on a drive through the North Yorkshire moors in winter (I grew up there and in fact started my rallying efforts there inc. BDA RS1800 - nearly 40 years ago ) Thus what really stood out was how compliant the 718 S was This is critical because that compliance and accuracy defines how hard you can push a car especially towards the limits - something missing to a larger or lesser degree from the TTRS and M2.

I agree the sound is different but disagree about the comments in regard to NVH - I would go as far to say that is made up, literally a storied story line and is in complete contrast to my own experience (I drove the 718S and M2 back to back in Sept. the M2 engine is way less responsive and very laggy in comparison to the 718S - ).

I think, the most interesting finding from my perspective is the people that have purchased 718S are very, very happy with their purchase and the people that have driven the 718S with a critical eye (including myself, I thought the engine was going to be a complete let down and it wasn't) and are genuinely objective, also come away impressed.

Dickie Meaden did the track job - good enough for you?

I would like to contradict what you're saying about the NVH. It was exactly that, that surprised me when I first drove a 718S in May. How "raw" and unrefined it felt compared to the 981. And this was the case throughout the rev range, from idle to rev-stop. There was no smoothness anywhere. And I also agree with EVO on how it delivers the torque. There is lag. No question. Maybe it is less than the competitors. But it's more than an N/A (obviously), and it is definitely noticeable, and it is in that context the 718 should be compared. So it is not a "made up story line"... The NVH, the torque delivery/controllability and the sound quality - on all those accounts the 718 is worse than the 981. But maybe it's just a question of how sensitive you are.

Reg chassis compliance: no-one ever thought Porsche would make a worse chassi, and of course the 718 is brilliant. But I think also the 981 would have beaten the M2 and TT RS in this department, the 718 upgrades are too small to have had a significant influence on the outcome.

 

[erik_plus8]

Yep, I have no problem with that, each to their own. Enjoy your 991.2! But still - you have a deposit down on a GT3RS... Completely different character than the boosted siblings. So I guess you are not completely lost to the dark side yet :cheers:

I still want to comment on your "gear vs lag": The engine rev has an influence on the amount of lag, sure. But it is never completely gone. My estimation is that the lag in the 718S was somewhere between 0.9s (at 2000rpm) and 0.5s (at 4000-> rpm). Never less. It is this feeling of "disconnect" between throttle pedal input and reaction in the car that I will never accept in a sports car. I know that that means my choice is narrowing down dramatically and so be it. Once there are no more N/A cars to buy, either new or used, I will find something else to spend my money on. Back to karting (oooooo - 2-strokes.... Yummy...) or back to motocross (450cc machines are brutal - and N/A still). Simple as that.

 

[erik_plus8]

The topic is how great the 718 is compared to the 981. The only disappointment with the turbo four engines seems to be from people that don't own one. Compared to my 2014 981 my 718 is superior in every respect. I personally now like the sound of it as well as my 981. You don't seem to own a 718 thus you aren't really able to really compare the two cars, your opinion only comes from repeating comments from people like yourself that probably don't own a 718. You are probably disturbed that the price of a 718 base is about $8,000 less than your 981S but has about the same or better performance. How would you feel if the people that owned the 718 went on the 981 board all the time and kept telling you how much better the 718 was than your 981. You probably wouldn't like it. Be happy with your 981 and let us be happy with our 718's. If you don't like our car so be it because I haven't heard any negative comments from 718 owners except some don't like the sound as much as the 981.

Wrong thread for two reasons:

1. We've been talking autonomous vehicles the last 10 pages, and I suspect it will continue if someone doesn't get us back on-topic
2. This thread is originally about the mostly crappy reviews the 718 has collected since its introduction. There is a fan-thread where 718 fans are left alone. Go there

What I find a bit offensive with your post is that you seem to think someone who doesn't own a 718 can't have an opinion. That is totally BS. In my case I could have waited one or two months and ordered a 718 but instead I managed to get my hands on one of the last 981s. This because I could imagine what the 718 would be like. Still, to give the car the benefit of the doubt, I booked a test drive of a 718S once they came to the dealers. I went there with an open mind but after the drive I was 100% convinced I made the right choice.

I would tend to trust more the people who do NOT own a certain product because as soon as you put down your own money, you tend to justify your purchase more (buyers bias). We've had a case on a Swedish P-forum where someone was really talking up his new 718 and at the same time having it listed for sale after just 5000km...

So, no need to own the car to have an opinion. Do you discard all automotive journalists opinions too? They very seldom own the cars they write about.

 

[erik_plus8]

As you had already bought a 981, surely this "buyers bias" was present in your test drive? And it also exists in existing 981 owners....

I agree that you don't need to own the car to have an opinion though.

Also most recent reviews have been extremely positive about the car, which perhaps is why this thread has deviated so far off-topic.

Well, in my case, as I said, I could have easily waited a very short time to order the 718 instead. I knew that it was coming and I knew the specifications. Sure, I had to pull the trigger on the 981 without having driven the 718 but I like to think I had a reasonable idea how the 718 would turn out. If I at the test drive would have found my predictions completely wrong and the 718 really was the car for me, I would have been the first to admit. I don't think it would have been any difficulties in getting rid of the 981, they are going for quite good numbers pricewise at least here, and I would have ordered a 718. Life's to short too drive around in a car you don't like. But instead, I am now super happy that I managed to get one of the last 981 made and I hope I can keep it for a long time.

As for recent reviews - check a couple of pages back where I posted a pic of the latest EVO magazine testdrive of a C718S alongside a TT RS and an M2. Sure, the 718 takes the victory, but the underlying message is not positive.

 

[erik_plus8]

718S is 16 seconds faster than the 981S around the Ring.... this is earth shattering! hardly incremental and unprecedented by Porsche to up the performance sooooo much in just one model revision. I would feel like a goose if I had bought a 981GTS knowing that the next model would have this level of performance, after all they're sports cars, at the end of the day one is better than the other.

Thing is though - around "the Ring" - it's more how about big b***s you have than necessarily how fast the car you're in is (in the hands of a professional factory test driver with probably thousands of laps around "the Ring"). Have you been there? I have. A few times. And each and every lap I discover something that makes me almost crap in my pants. I think most of us can get shitscared in a hybrid Golf around there, let alone a 981 or a 718 for that matter. If you're type of driver that can take your Box/Cay whatever down close to 8min BTG then sure, those 16s can matter. But those that can are far and few between. I apologize in advance if you are one of those drivers :cheers: The rest of us can have fun training in the meantime.

 

[erik_plus8]

or maybe, after 1200 posts most pretty much saying "exhaust sounds like subaru", "exhaust sound sucks", "it doesn't wail"... the subject has been exhausted.

Don't know if this was supposed to be funny but if the critisism of the exhaust sound is all you have taken with you after reading 1200 posts, I suggest you read again. You will learn something. I guess you can skip the ones concerning autonomous driving which will make it quicker. Good luck!