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Would you exchange your used 987 for a new GT-R at no extra cost?


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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
=> UPDATE Nov 8th, 2011:
Watch Out, Nordschleife: Nissan Launches 2012 GT-R
"We have a car that has the potential to go from 0-100 km/h (0-62mph) in under 3 seconds, lap the Nurburgring in less than 7 minutes 20 seconds, and cruise at speeds of 300 kilometers per hour," said Chief Vehicle Engineer Kazutoshi Mizuno.
Watch Out, Nordschleife: Nissan Launches 2012 GT-R | The Truth About Cars

0-62 in 2.8 seconds!!!
2012 Nissan GT-R unveiled - BBC Top Gear


=> UPDATE on August 16, 2011
Here's an update for this old thread as a new video has been released showing off the 2012 GT-R smoking the ranks held previously by Porsche:


I have to admit that the way it corners is shockingly magnetic!

=> Original Post on December 9, 2010
I see the fans of the GT-R continue to grow every day. Therefore, I decided to establish this poll out of curiosity knowing that the two cars are in different categories even in terms of price but still. The question is very simple, given the opportunity at your local dealer to exchange for FREE your used 987 for a brand new GT-R would you do so?
 

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Yes, and then I would sell it and buy a new loaded Cayman S or R.
I knew some will say that... but seriously this is not the point behind this poll.
 

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No, The Cayman is Balanced and Tactile. The GT-R, while an amazing piece of electronic gadget engineering is exactly that....a bunch of electronics doing everything for you. You're not connected with the car.
 

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No, The Cayman is Balanced and Tactile. The GT-R, while an amazing piece of electronic gadget engineering is exactly that....a bunch of electronics doing everything for you. You're not connected with the car.
Aside from the pretty Polyphony Digital displays, exactly what does the GT-R do electronically that the Cayman doesn't do?
 

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Definately a yes for me, just to have had the joy of ownership of something different.

I wish Nissan had made it an Infiniti car though and did a little more with the interior and I know when servicing comes around I'd have a heart attack. Nissan labour for working on the GTR is higher than their other products because of specialist training and tools required.

It's $7-8k for pad and disc replacement by the dealer, which they will only ever do together, never just the pads.

A Porsche is relatively cheap in comparison for service and overall I personally believe is overall better value when you look at not only the purchase price but the running costs into consideration.
Launch control is gone on newer GTR's to avoid the warranty issue.

I will not get into if the car drives you or you drive it, because it is all just a matter of opinion. Like 911 vs 987.......

Still to own that sort of performance would be fun. :cheers:
 

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No.

To channel my inner James May - "because I'm not a pillock"

:taunt:

Seriously, have you sat inside one? I don't care how trick the diff is and how great it handles. Like sitting inside a 8 year old Nissan Sentra. Bleh.
 

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Aside from the pretty Polyphony Digital displays, exactly what does the GT-R do electronically that the Cayman doesn't do?
I'm not hating on the GT-R. It's a great car, you get amazing performance for somewhat half the price of a Ferrari, but the all wheel drive system and those displays and sensors that sort everything out for you. Don't get me wrong, The GT-R is amazing, I just don't prefer electronics to sort things out for me. I also don't enjoy boosted engines.
 

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I'm not hating on the GT-R. It's a great car, you get amazing performance for somewhat half the price of a Ferrari, but the all wheel drive system and those displays and sensors that sort everything out for you. Don't get me wrong, The GT-R is amazing, I just don't prefer electronics to sort things out for me.
"Sort things out"? What does that mean? Ummm...hate to tell you this but there are no electronic driving aids on the GT-R that can't be found on other cars.

AWD can be found on a lot of sports cars, such as the Lamborghini Murcielago/Gallardo, Audi R8, Porsche 911 Turbo, Porsche Carrera 4. ABS? Standard on most cars. Traction control? Again, standard on most sports cars. Active suspension management? Available on most sports cars. Dual-clutch transmission? Again, same thing.
 

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"Sort things out"? What does that mean? Ummm...hate to tell you this but there are no electronic driving aids on the GT-R that can't be found on other cars.

AWD can be found on a lot of sports cars, such as the Lamborghini Murcielago/Gallardo, Audi R8, Porsche 911 Turbo, Porsche Carrera 4. ABS? Standard on most cars. Traction control? Again, standard on most sports cars. Active suspension management? Available on most sports cars. Dual-clutch transmission? Again, same thing.
Let me put in in simple terms, the car has way too many computer sensors for it's own good.

Sensors that measure traction so that the car can come back into line, sensors that measure yaw rate and G Forces and tell you(I have no idea what use this has)(Stability Control does this, I know) Sensors that measure how fast you go and record it. Sensors that do this, sensors that do that. It's all good and these gadgets are what make the GT-R a great car. The cars computer measuring everything from an array of sensors, and making you look like the best driver on the planet. Did I mention it's too heavy?

It also needs a re-design. Got a chance to test drive one recently, and was blown away. The 2012 GT-R's will be $100,000+ thanks to an HP and torque boost and a couple of minor refreshes. Also for the record, I prefer AWD over RWD. Gives you a planted feeling. Thats' why I drive a 328xi.


http://www.autoweek.com/article/20100924/CARREVIEWS/100929934


"It's an incredibly fast car, but it takes the driver out of the equation"
 

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Let me put in in simple terms, the car has way too many computer sensors for it's own good.

Sensors that measure traction so that the car can come back into line, sensors that measure yaw rate and G Forces and tell you(I have no idea what use this has)(Stability Control does this, I know) Sensors that measure how fast you go and record it. Sensors that do this, sensors that do that. It's all good and these gadgets are what make the GT-R a great car. The cars computer measuring everything from an array of sensors, and making you look like the best driver on the planet. Did I mention it's too heavy?
Yes, it is heavy, but GT-R's have always been heavy.

The article you quoted goes on to say "There are countless sensors sending readings to computers which decide where to send power and can probably enable even a caveman to crack off relatively quick lap times." So they're just talking about the ATTESA-ETS AWD system. How is that a bad thing? You can find similar electronics on the Audi Quattro system, or on the Mitsubishi Evo.

As far as sensors go, I fail to see how having all these sensors make you feel "not connected with the car". All they do is display information, they don't intervene to directly affect your driving at all. If you don't want to use the sensors, then don't look at the display or just turn it off.

Besides, even a lot of the sensor data isn't unique to the GT-R. A lot of it can be mined and displayed from the OBDII port of any car (like with a PLX), or you can install a G-meter on the dash. If anything, having MORE sensor data is helpful and makes one feel more connected to the car. There are quite a few Cayman owners who pine for a simple oil pressure gauge like the 911 has.
 

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What a good question, considering I just got smoked by one last weekend :D
The GT-R was one of my options but I chose the Cayman 2.9PDK instead.
Some days I regret my decision... like last week when I got smoked by one. Other days (more than some days) I thank my lucky stars I didn't choose it.

The GT-R is pretty common in these parts and the badge doesn't really punch as hard as its engine.
I.E. If I put a GT-R carkey on a table and a Porsche carkey on the table, It doesn't matter what Porsche it is, regular folks will immediately think either the Porsche is the faster car or the Porsche is just as fast. :)

So that vote for Maybe is mine.
 

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Definately a yes for me, just to have had the joy of ownership of something different.

I wish Nissan had made it an Infiniti car though and did a little more with the interior and I know when servicing comes around I'd have a heart attack. Nissan labour for working on the GTR is higher than their other products because of specialist training and tools required.

It's $7-8k for pad and disc replacement by the dealer, which they will only ever do together, never just the pads.

A Porsche is relatively cheap in comparison for service and overall I personally believe is overall better value when you look at not only the purchase price but the running costs into consideration.
Launch control is gone on newer GTR's to avoid the warranty issue.

I will not get into if the car drives you or you drive it, because it is all just a matter of opinion. Like 911 vs 987.......

Still to own that sort of performance would be fun. :cheers:
FYI: LC1 is gone but LC2 replaced it for MY 2009 and MY 2010 cars, MY 2011 cars have LC3 and the 2012 GT-R will have LC4.

I agree 100% in regards to cost of ownership of a car that is as complex as the GT-R, being AWD, Turbo with a DCT it will have an impact in regards to parts/labor for the vehicle, just like the 997.2 Turbo with PDK.

I would not be too suprised if the long term cost of ownership won't be that much different between a 997.2 Turbo with PDK compared to a R35 GT-R.

A Cayman S in comparison is a bit more affordable car to maintain due to the relatively simple design being 2wd, with a NA engine, option of a manual 5 or 6 speed tranny, simpler rotor design for the brakes, etc, etc.

BTW: I totally agree that debating the merits of the GT-R vs the Cayman would be similar to debating the merits of the Cayman vs a 997.2 Turbo with PDK.
 

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BTW: I totally agree that debating the merits of the GT-R vs the Cayman would be similar to debating the merits of the Cayman vs a 997.2 Turbo with PDK.
Yet, the "yes" and "no" poll answers are very much equal..!!!

I am sure if the poll was between the 987 & 997.2 turbo the second would win the poll remarkably.
 

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HasaanAbdeen has raised an interesting topic. I'll be curious about the results although I suspect most here will be negative on the idea.

I love my CS. I drive it every day and I appreciate it now more than I did the day I bought it. It has made me a vocal Porsche snob where I sneer at other higher priced cars because I know they don't offer anything approaching the driver experience provided by my car. At many cars that intrigued me in the past, I now just shake my head and move on.

That being said, I answered yes to the poll and here is my rationale. The GT-R seems like the ultimate technological approach to supercar performance. Jeremy Clarkson has stated, half seriously, that to him Porsche represents automotive precision without emotion and Ferrari represents the 'passion' of driving. While I disagree with that assessment, we all know that Porsche engineering uses a set of deliberate design choices to enhance certain characteristics to provide a high degree of driver involvement.

The GT-R strikes me as a design that carries the efficient performance mantra to a logical conclusion where driver involvement is not the goal. The principal complaint against the car is that it removes the driver from the equation. I am certain, without driving the car, that the criticism is valid. That doesn't change the fact that the car is a rather unique technological feat that is in a niche by itself. The car doesn't offer the driving experience of a Porsche....and doesn't offer the 'passion' (and opulent glitter) of a Ferrari or Lamborghini. It does offer high performance at a value price. For that reason the car is interesting and would be worth a try.
 

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My answer is a bit biased given that I currently own a 2008 Cayman S and a 2010 GT-R.

For me personally it will all depend on what I plan to do with the car:

For a car that would be seeing quite a bit of track time I would still choose to keep a manual tranny 987.2 Cayman S, love the power delivery of NA engines, I just wish that the Cayman's engine had the same amount of low end torque as a 997.1 or 997.2 GT3 engine.

For a DD that does not see much track time the GT-R would be the choice because it is a bit more comfortable car to drive due to it's power delivery and the great chassis setup.

BTW: For everyone that says that the GT-R drives itself, sadly that seems to be the future of most modern sportscars with the exception of the GT3/GT2's. Even the 997.2 Turbo makes use of Torque Vectoring that in principle is very similar to what the ATESSA system does on the GT-R.

Looking at exotic cars: the F458 makes use of an e-diff and a car like the MP4-12C that does not even use a LSD instead relying on EBD to help the car rotate (or so I was told when I saw the car down in Monterey), so it looks like sensors are here to stay :(

Who knows maybe the next generation Cayman/Boxster will have more electronic nannies, it is bad enough that it is hard to completely disable Porsche Save Me on the current cars.
 

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I am sure if the poll was between the 987 & 997.2 turbo the second would win the poll remarkably.
Actually I'm not sure that one is quite as clear cut. If you said GT3 or GT2 instead of 987 then I'd not argue, but the Turbo is a rather lardy (heavy) car and AWD is a different taste. Of course if it was a direct swap then it would be a no-brainer purely based on the cost difference normally.

However I expect if you asked how many would want an AWD 987 most would come back and say no, because I believe it would take a little bit of the fun away.

FYI: LC1 is gone but LC2 replaced it for MY 2009 and MY 2010 cars, MY 2011 cars have LC3 and the 2012 GT-R will have LC4.
What's the difference between them all....I'd just heard they'd cancelled it, but seems I'm wrong. I'll take one with an form or no LC if they drop the servicing costs a bit....because performance with 4 seats will be ultimately what I'll need ;)
 
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