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I know it’s been a minute on this thread, but I have a question on this if anyone has any guidance. I have a 2022 boxster 4.0 track car. It has 5,500 total miles with about 20 track days on it. I just accomplished the clutch drain in my shop on my lift (car level). I drained when the fluid was hot. The heat exchanger stand pipe was 60C (IR gunned) and the fluid was showing 50C after it was drained into my drain pan.

Question; when I removed the fill plug prior to the drain plug the fluid really came pouring out!! I did not expect this. Thought it would just dribble out a little bit. Fluid was way above the fill port. Not sure if that is the way it is supposed to go or not? Maybe it is because I drained hot fluid, but I still would not have expected so much to come out of the fill port. Going to let it drain overnight and allow the system to cool down before I start the refill procedure, but does anyone have any guidance on that? Thanks!
 
Discussion starter · #142 ·
I know it’s been a minute on this thread, but I have a question on this if anyone has any guidance. I have a 2022 boxster 4.0 track car. It has 5,500 total miles with about 20 track days on it. I just accomplished the clutch drain in my shop on my lift (car level). I drained when the fluid was hot. The heat exchanger stand pipe was 60C (IR gunned) and the fluid was showing 50C after it was drained into my drain pan.

Question; when I removed the fill plug prior to the drain plug the fluid really came pouring out!! I did not expect this. Thought it would just dribble out a little bit. Fluid was way above the fill port. Not sure if that is the way it is supposed to go or not? Maybe it is because I drained hot fluid, but I still would not have expected so much to come out of the fill port. Going to let it drain overnight and allow the system to cool down before I start the refill procedure, but does anyone have any guidance on that? Thanks!
That's normal. The level will lower when you start the car and the pump sucks some of the pan volume into the transmission components. Also the volume will be more due to the temperature being above the filling standard of 40C. It will also pour out more quickly due to the temperature reducing the viscosity of the fluid.

It should only dribble out a bit if filled to the correct level with the engine running and at 40C.
 
That's normal. The level will lower when you start the car and the pump sucks some of the pan volume into the transmission components. Also the volume will be more due to the temperature being above the filling standard of 40C. It will also pour out more quickly due to the temperature reducing the viscosity of the fluid.

It should only dribble out a bit if filled to the correct level with the engine running and at 40C.
OK got it. Thanks for the reply and your detailed and very informative write up/videos on this. Will fill tomorrow and do the diff as well.
 
That's normal. The level will lower when you start the car and the pump sucks some of the pan volume into the transmission components. Also the volume will be more due to the temperature being above the filling standard of 40C. It will also pour out more quickly due to the temperature reducing the viscosity of the fluid.

It should only dribble out a bit if filled to the correct level with the engine running and at 40C.
Actually just thought of something else if I can run this by you. I would like to change the fluid to a high quality DCT racing fluid. I know the drain will not get all the old fluid out. Is it ok to mix the fluids?
 
Discussion starter · #145 ·
Actually just thought of something else if I can run this by you. I would like to change the fluid to a high quality DCT racing fluid. I know the drain will not get all the old fluid out. Is it ok to mix the fluids?
That's not something I'm qualified to answer. Me personally I'd have no issues with mixing, but only someone who has a very solid understanding of the chemistry involved would give you a reliable answer.

That being said, if you change multiple times with a short drive between each change, you will progressively get more and more of the newer fluid installed. Yes you waste some fluid doing this, but if your aim is to change over as much as possible this is the only way I know how to do it without completely disassembling the transmission.

Also, getting the maximum drained is key to replacing the maximum volume of fluid. I made a video a few months ago on how to get more fluid out when draining. It might help. I've found you get about another 25% fluid. I've used the same bent drain hose on other standard autos since and it's surprised me how much extra you get.

 
That's not something I'm qualified to answer. Me personally I'd have no issues with mixing, but only someone who has a very solid understanding of the chemistry involved would give you a reliable answer.

That being said, if you change multiple times with a short drive between each change, you will progressively get more and more of the newer fluid installed. Yes you waste some fluid doing this, but if your aim is to change over as much as possible this is the only way I know how to do it without completely disassembling the transmission.

Also, getting the maximum drained is key to replacing the maximum volume of fluid. I made a video a few months ago on how to get more fluid out when draining. It might help. I've found you get about another 25% fluid. I've used the same bent drain hose on other standard autos since and it's surprised me how much extra you get.

Yes I did watch that video. Very clever indeed. I have been reading other threads where drivers have switched fluids in the process of a drain only without dropping the pan. Think I will use your technique with the straw and proceed with the mix. Thanks again! Cheers.
 
IDK if anyone has done this on a 718 or not, but I had an issue getting an 8MM hex up to the gear oil drain plug. There is a brace bar located right behind the anti roll bar (sway bar) and the tool won’t fit between these two bars. It’s not a big deal to move the bar, but you have to remove two bolts and loosen four bolts. Then the bar can then be moved rearward and the tool can fit between the bar and sway bar.

I will add a couple of pics showing the bar that has to be moved rearward. Can someone tell me if the bolts I am pointing to in the picture are single use bolts? I know that crossmember assembly that attaches into the subframe has four main bolts that are single use, but I think these may be as well. Let me know what you think.

Otherwise this job went off pretty well. Just as described by others who did the work. Thanks!!

Image

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Discussion starter · #148 ·
IDK if anyone has done this on a 718 or not, but I had an issue getting an 8MM hex up to the gear oil drain plug. There is a brace bar located right behind the anti roll bar (sway bar) and the tool won’t fit between these two bars. It’s not a big deal to move the bar, but you have to remove two bolts and loosen four bolts. Then the bar can then be moved rearward and the tool can fit between the bar and sway bar.

I will add a couple of pics showing the bar that has to be moved rearward. Can someone tell me if the bolts I am pointing to in the picture are single use bolts? I know that crossmember assembly that attaches into the subframe has four main bolts that are single use, but I think these may be as well. Let me know what you think.

Otherwise this job went off pretty well. Just as described by others who did the work. Thanks!!

View attachment 289421
View attachment 289422
Having done this a lot of times, I find it's easiest to use a long extension on the hex tool so you have your breaker bar/wrench out near where the wheel would be. It's designed from what I can see to have direct access from here, and it will save you the effort of removing the bar.
 
IDK if anyone has done this on a 718 or not, but I had an issue getting an 8MM hex up to the gear oil drain plug. There is a brace bar located right behind the anti roll bar (sway bar) and the tool won’t fit between these two bars. It’s not a big deal to move the bar, but you have to remove two bolts and loosen four bolts. Then the bar can then be moved rearward and the tool can fit between the bar and sway bar.

I will add a couple of pics showing the bar that has to be moved rearward. Can someone tell me if the bolts I am pointing to in the picture are single use bolts? I know that crossmember assembly that attaches into the subframe has four main bolts that are single use, but I think these may be as well. Let me know what you think.

Otherwise this job went off pretty well. Just as described by others who did the work. Thanks!!

View attachment 289421
View attachment 289422
The bolts can be reused. I have a '16 981 and retrofitted the brace you are pointing (OEM on 981 GT4 and OEM of all 718). I reused the bolts holding the rear anti sway bar bracket. The torque spec is low. You won't stretch the steel bolts as it will probably strip the aluminum receiving end before it does.
 
Ok guys thanks a lot for all this. It has been super helpful. I track this car alot to the tune of 25-30 track days per year. I retire for the summer (Texas 😜) and decided to do this work myself because of all the great info here. I have a super cool shop and lift and I am always turning wrenches on it between events and coaching sessions doing oil changes, brake flushes and suspension inspections.

I had two 981’s prior to this car and always took them to my Indy shop to get the clutch and gear oil done during my off season. The information in this thread gave me the confidence to do the work myself and save some cold hard cash.

What I noticed is that the diff fluid was pretty dark. The clutch oil looked ok. This is after 5000 total miles and about 20 total track days. I think I will do the diff twice a year and the clutch oil once per year. I did notice a difference in the shifting. Seems quicker and more responsive. I used Liqui Moly dual clutch gear oil 8100. Driven racing stopped making their dual clutch oil, so I didn’t use that. For the gear oil I used driven racing spec 75-90 LSD.
 
I want to make sure I understood what you have written correctly and before I go any further, I am most likely wrong as I am not a mechanic. You wrote "I will do the diff twice a year and the clutch oil once per year". By this I understand you to mean that you will replace the PDK fluid once per year and the gear oil twice a year. Let me know if I am incorrect but just an FYI, my own track schedule is slightly less than half yours so I will refer everything in ratios. By diff you may also mean you have a limited slip differential whereas I do not. Back to my point, my logic is that the clutch packs - aka PDK - go thru the most fluid thrashing on a track day whereas, assuming the PDK is doing the correct job of synchronizing, the gears are not. So I was thinking to replace the PDK fluid once and the gear oil twice the amount of time (PDK/year, gears/2years). Do I have this all backwards or incorrect logic? Thanks in advance.
 
I want to make sure I understood what you have written correctly and before I go any further, I am most likely wrong as I am not a mechanic. You wrote "I will do the diff twice a year and the clutch oil once per year". By this I understand you to mean that you will replace the PDK fluid once per year and the gear oil twice a year. Let me know if I am incorrect but just an FYI, my own track schedule is slightly less than half yours so I will refer everything in ratios. By diff you may also mean you have a limited slip differential whereas I do not. Back to my point, my logic is that the clutch packs - aka PDK - go thru the most fluid thrashing on a track day whereas, assuming the PDK is doing the correct job of synchronizing, the gears are not. So I was thinking to replace the PDK fluid once and the gear oil twice the amount of time (PDK/year, gears/2years). Do I have this all backwards or incorrect logic? Thanks in advance.
Yes that is exactly what I meant. I was going by using the “old school” method of judging by the way the oil looks or how dirty it appears if you will. The clutch oil in this case looked pretty clean and the diff was dark.

I know I can do oil analysis on the clutch oil and take a more modern scientific approach to changing it out. I do this with my motor oil on all changes to monitor trends. I do also know and have read that some recommend to change out the clutch oil and motor oil (race cars using racing oil) after every race weekend. Porsche recommends this service at somewhere in the neighborhood of 100K miles. I think I will use something in between.

I am interested in your opinion. You said you are a mechanic and track your car as well. How do you go about these oil changes with your vehicle?

Thanks!
 
I know it's been a while, but I’ve recently hit 101,000 miles on my 13 Boxster S, and the transmission fluid has never been changed as the the records show. I’ve been reading through the tutorials provided by jj. Such a great write-up, detailed and informative. But still, I have a question regarding draining transmission fluid with a cold engine.

While I understand the necessity of ensuring the fluid temperature is around 40 degrees Celsius when adding transmission fluid, as higher temperatures can lead to fluid expansion and inaccurate measurements, I’m still confused about the rationale behind draining transmission fluid with a cold engine.

In my understanding, one possible purpose of draining transmission fluid with a cold engine could be for safety reasons, as the lower temperature of the fluid reduces the risk of burns. However, aside from safety considerations, are there any other reasons for draining transmission fluid with a cold engine? Is it perhaps easier to drain the fluid in its cold state compared to when it’s hot? Or are there other factors at play that I might not be aware of?
 
This is from my Notes that I copied from JJ…
- Drain. I left it overnight on the lift to drain as much as possible, and also to cool for the change the next morning. Installed drain plug the next morning. Outside temp 15C. Pan temp 20C.
The drain period is warm and the fill the next day is cool. I’m pretty sure I got that right and btw, I just did it at 58k for the second time. Very smooth, very easy and makes you feel good. C.
 
I actually have a similar question to the post above. While doing my PDK oil change (991.1 S), I noticed another fill plug above the shift cable (shown in red arrow, blue arrow is the ATF fill plug). Anyone has any idea what that fill plug is for? The gear oil fill plug is one the other side of the transmission.

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Discussion starter · #157 ·
I actually have a similar question to the post above. While doing my PDK oil change (991.1 S), I noticed another fill plug above the shift cable (shown in red arrow, blue arrow is the ATF fill plug). Anyone has any idea what that fill plug is for? The gear oil fill plug is one the other side of the transmission.

View attachment 298028
There's only one fill plug for the clutch fluid and one for the gear fluid. Anything else you see is either just a plug that closes a manufacturing hole, or the one with the red arrow is a weep hole for the double seal that lives between the two input shafts. If fluid comes out of here is means you have a leak in this double seal. There is gear fluid on one side of the double seal and clutch fluid on the other side. If fluid leaks it means one side is leaking, and is used to allow the leaking fluid to escape to the outside rather than into the other chamber.
 
There's only one fill plug for the clutch fluid and one for the gear fluid. Anything else you see is either just a plug that closes a manufacturing hole, or the one with the red arrow is a weep hole for the double seal that lives between the two input shafts. If fluid comes out of here is means you have a leak in this double seal. There is gear fluid on one side of the double seal and clutch fluid on the other side. If fluid leaks it means one side is leaking, and is used to allow the leaking fluid to escape to the outside rather than into the other chamber.
Thank you for the quick response. We may have a learning lesson here at my expense. I got the car towed to my mechanic to check it out because that is the fill plug I mistakenly used to fill the ATF fluid (I know, super dumb mistake, I am still beating myself for it). The mystery is it took in almost 6L of ATF through that hole. Before I drove or put the car on gear but after I realized my mistake, I opened the correct ATF fill plug and no oil came out. I tried filling it through there and it only took 1L before it overflowed. Way more than 1L came out when I drained the ATF, so some oil made its way there.

After reviewing the image below of the oil chamber separation, I figure that amount of oil could only have gone to the gear oil side or the clutch oil side or both. I drained the clutch oil to see if some had gone there and no, there was right about 3L of gear oil which is the normal amount.

Something doesn't add up.
  1. I don't think there is any other space in the transmission that could take 6L of oil.
  2. It did not go into the gear area or at least not an area that can be drained through the gear oil drain plug.
  3. At least some of it made it to the clutch oil chamber.
  4. The clutch oil chamber doesn't hold that much oil (7L between the 6 that went into the wrong place and the 1 I added later) or so I think.
  5. If no. 4 is correct, where is there rest of that oil and how do you drain it (PDK out?)
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I will make sure to update this post once I hear back from my mechanic.
 
Thank you for the quick response. We may have a learning lesson here at my expense. I got the car towed to my mechanic to check it out because that is the fill plug I mistakenly used to fill the ATF fluid (I know, super dumb mistake, I am still beating myself for it). The mystery is it took in almost 6L of ATF through that hole. Before I drove or put the car on gear but after I realized my mistake, I opened the correct ATF fill plug and no oil came out. I tried filling it through there and it only took 1L before it overflowed. Way more than 1L came out when I drained the ATF, so some oil made its way there.

After reviewing the image below of the oil chamber separation, I figure that amount of oil could only have gone to the gear oil side or the clutch oil side or both. I drained the clutch oil to see if some had gone there and no, there was right about 3L of gear oil which is the normal amount.

Something doesn't add up.
  1. I don't think there is any other space in the transmission that could take 6L of oil.
  2. It did not go into the gear area or at least not an area that can be drained through the gear oil drain plug.
  3. At least some of it made it to the clutch oil chamber.
  4. The clutch oil chamber doesn't hold that much oil (7L between the 6 that went into the wrong place and the 1 I added later) or so I think.
  5. If no. 4 is correct, where is there rest of that oil and how do you drain it (PDK out?)
View attachment 298031

I will make sure to update this post once I hear back from my mechanic.
Quick follow up. Still waiting on the shop but watching Jeff's videos on YouTube (thank you for those Jeff, I have learned more than I ever imagined watching them). I think I know where the fluid went. I took this screenshot of the "[...] gear set removal, front case removal" video. I am almost certain the hole I circled is the one I fill the ATF fluid through. Since mine is a 991, the image is mirrored but it matches where the electrical connector is in my original picture and that other smaller torx plug in front of it that you can barely see in my picture as well. If that's correct, then my ATF fluid went into the gear oil side and it explains how it was able to take in that much more oil. The big question then is, why did it not come out when I tried draining the gear oil afterwards? I only tried draining it through the big drain plug of the gear oil and not the smaller plug. I wonder if it's all caught somewhere where it can only come out of the small drain plug. To answer that I would need to know why there are two drains for the gear oil in the first place (is there some kind of internal separation?).

Image
 

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Discussion starter · #160 ·
Quick follow up. Still waiting on the shop but watching Jeff's videos on YouTube (thank you for those Jeff, I have learned more than I ever imagined watching them). I think I know where the fluid went. I took this screenshot of the "[...] gear set removal, front case removal" video. I am almost certain the hole I circled is the one I fill the ATF fluid through. Since mine is a 991, the image is mirrored but it matches where the electrical connector is in my original picture and that other smaller torx plug in front of it that you can barely see in my picture as well. If that's correct, then my ATF fluid went into the gear oil side and it explains how it was able to take in that much more oil. The big question then is, why did it not come out when I tried draining the gear oil afterwards? I only tried draining it through the big drain plug of the gear oil and not the smaller plug. I wonder if it's all caught somewhere where it can only come out of the small drain plug. To answer that I would need to know why there are two drains for the gear oil in the first place (is there some kind of internal separation?).

View attachment 298034
I am a bit baffled why you can't drain most of the fluid out. There's nowhere else for it to go. If you only drain the gear oil from the large plug and not the small one under the diff, you will drain all but about 250ml of fluid, which is just the small amount that sits in the bowl under the diff. This based on my knowledge of the 981 transmission, but I can't see that many litres of fluid would still be remaining in the space under the diff.

The two drains for the gear section are because there are two low points, so to drain fully it needs to be drained from these points. But there is a single fill hole as the fill level is well above the 'high point' between the main and diff sections of this part of the transmission.

Note the hole you have circled above from my video is the weep hole for the double seal. When the gear set is installed a support structure slides over this hole and joins it to the passages that then go to the double seal between the input shafts. Image below from my gear set removal video that shows me removing the weep hole plug and I've put a red dot on the support structure that slots down over the hole.

Honestly I don't know how you could put significant fluid through here, as it goes to the seal and unless pumped in with significant pressure I can't understand how it could go anywhere.

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And to confirm the plugs on a 911 transmission, red is the fill plug, blue is the weep plug.

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Fortunately it would seem that clutch fluid has gone into the gear chamber and not the other way around. Gear oil getting into the clutch section is bad, as from what I've been told of race workshops, this is a very good way to ruin the valve body.

So I'd be draining both chambers fully and refilling to ensure you don't have contamination.
 
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