You need the MantisSort Extended Baffled Sump.............

 

See the prior topic threads discussing oil ingestion, breather tubes, etc. and the solutions from Mantis Sport, etc. It happens under certain conditions with even the recommended amount of oil in the engine, I think the condition is a sudden decel followed by a left hand turn followed by a right hand turn, but I may have the sequence wrong. It is harmless stuff but irritating nonetheless...

 

Sounds like a design flaw to me.

You would think that a sports car (which will probably experience sudden decel and abrupt left hand and right hand turns) would be designed for proper oil distribution under those conditions.

 

I've had the same problem but usually after the session is over and the cars been sitting with the engine off, when you restart you get a cloud of white smoke. Do a search on the forum, cos I know I've seen this before here, I even think there's a solution with some form of oil baffle system from Motordrive or something. Never happened to me on track and I was never blackflagged. Was it a road course or an Oval? I could see the sustained G's on an Oval causing this.

G.

 

What lights on the instrument panel were lighting up?

 

Happens to me on a hard decel and then a hard left hand turn. There is no cure that I know of. My CEL light would come on and off. I have the Sump extension from Mantis Sport - it helps but is not a cure. Ernie at Mantis Sport was working on a solution at one point but nothing as of yet that I know of. They did come up with a cure for their racing Cayman but it took up the entire rear section of the car if I remember right.

 

please explain to me, are you guys saying that i need to spend money on mods to get the car run on track??

 

Its an intermittent problem for me and I never get the christmas lights so in my case, I would say no. Just a little smoke thats only scary if you don't know why its happening.

G

 

Here are some pictures of the BB smokescreen I was following him at the time. The common thread here is rapid decel and hard left. Well, we were slowing from about 140 mph to nearly 0 to navigate a tight left and continuing left to get going on the infield course.

Oddly enough, my car did not exhibit the problem, even though I was going almost as fast through the same course. I have had smoke come out at SOW going CCW through the tight left hand 180 after the downhill front straight (through the skidpad), but no CEL ever came on.

Gave me some worries about track readiness also, but mine is still holding up.

Hope you figure it out, BB.

 

I went out to LVMS and watched the time trials on Saturday, and yes, they used a large portion of the high-banked oval - I don't recall seeing Bodine run, but I watched Naybor run and didn't see any oil clouds from his car...

Hey Naybor - it was great to meet you, btw...

brad

 

By the way, here is the cockpit view of the 21 degree banked turn at the end of the LV SW oval that we did before the back straight and the subsequent decel and left. It was a hoot

 

You guys are ready for NASCAR!

 

For me I have this problem when high reving, in a high g turn. I can make it go away, by staying in a higher gear in the same turn. Its more than smoke, the engine begins to bog down. I am afraid of hydro-locking the engine or cracking a piston.

I also have a huge smoke plume, when I start the car after it sits. Also, if you spin the car left, the smoke is really heavy.

I already have all the Mantis parts installed AND I run the oil on the bottom mark. But I still have the problem.

To solve the problem we just replaced the oil separator with a 2 chamber Porsche Motor Sport oil separator. (p/n 996 107 926 00) Its the same oil separator that is on Porsche factory race cars. While, its a perfect fit, its a real hassle to get one and to install. You have to modify the blower mount and reroute the wiring harness. Its a full day install job. Also, Porsche dealers cannot order the part, its not even in their computer. You have to know someone with access to order Porsche Motor Sport parts.

I have the car in the shop this weekend installing more goodies. I'll report back on he results after the next track outing in a couple of weeks. But I am pretty confident that this will solve the problem.

 

Yes, Kman S, it was very NASCAR, but without the intense traffic and about 30 mph or more slower. I was going through the banked sweeper at about 135mph and I am sure if I did it without fear, it could have been a bit faster. Mind you, my times were about 1:30 with an average speed for the 2.4 mile track of about 96 mph. The fastest POC members there, with GT cup cars were getting around at 1:16 or less. WOW! NASCAR doesn't get to have the fun of including the infield track with the oval.

I have to say, the feeling through the banked sweeper was incredible. Like flying or like falling, but what a rush.

beez, thanks for finding me. It was fun meeting you too. My son couldn't figure out why someone came up to me and asked "are you Naybor?".

 

Speedventures in Socal sometimes run the Roval at the California Speedway which is half the banked oval and most of the infield course. Its pretty terrifying but we would hit the bank at close to 145mph. On the far side of the bank theres a small straight and then a sharp left to the infield. Big braking and just where the check brae light came on. Brown trousers time all round.

DustyMcBackwards does the Cal Speedway!

 

I don't want to sound like i'm having a hissy fit here, but these are Porsche cars not Dodge Caravans. Should we be expecting to add aftermarket parts just to complete a lap of DE?

Am I expecting too much from a Porsche?

 

Some thoughts...

I would feel exactly the same way if I were you. A Porsche should be able to do a DE.

But, I have not seen the big Q yet. Are you running R compound tires? The manual says that they can give you too much grip and cause oil issues.

With PS2s...

My 2.7 never did this at Thunderhill, Laguna, Infineon, or Reno-Fernley.

I have only tracked my 3.4 at Laguna...again , no issue. Maybe I am not proficient enough yet to push the car hard enough to have an issue.

Anytime there has been another cayman at the track, I have paid close attention and none have had this problem *that I was aware of*.

But I know that the issue exists. I will have my 3.4 in some pretty hardcore action at Thunderhill over the next month or so, so I will see what happens.

Hopefully, your case is one of just the right set of moves in the wrong order...and it won't be an issue at other tracks. Maybe you need a GT3? I am not being a smart ***. I would be as pissed off as you are...but could the Cayman be unsuitable for the levels you are looking to achieve?

Hopefully it can do what you need it to do.

 

In my opinion Porsche engines of the 986/996 design are not idealy suited for track duty due to the lack of a true dry sump among some other oiling issues. Many of these engines have been tracked sucessfully, without incident, however modifications can minimize the known oiling issues. You can look to the Koni series cars for ideas in addition to the commercially available aids.

Although Porsche has a long history in motorsports, the majority of Porsche owners do not "track" their cars. When designing the 996/986 series, cost reduction was important, and lead the the current less expensive engines than the 964 based engines (that are in the 996/7 GT2,3, turbo.) Now, I am not saying that the 964 based engines do not have problems, they do, but generally they are not related to track use.

Porsche knew about the oiling issues as early in 1999, and recommended that R compound tires not be used on the 986 and 996.

At the DE's that I attend it is very common to see the 98X/99X engines smoke on start up, as well to see those engines give a puff of smoke on left handed turns. Even with excessive smoking, they continue to run well. Some say the issue is the oil/air sep., others state the pan needs to be baffled, still some state a deeper pan is the solution. One of my friend's 996 is one of the worse offenders for smoking, we joke with him that he is just using the smoke screen as an excuse that he can't see us in his mirrors. Conversly, I have had oil on my windshield from many "vintage" 911s.

Todays Porsches (non GTs) although from a handling and braking standpoint far exceede their air-cooled brothers, are not designed for track use.

I used to track a 944, after losing two engines in two years due to oiling issues (the 944 does not have a dry sump), I chose to track a 993 over the 99x/98x series. Don't get me wrong, I love my CS, I am just waiting for someone to drop a GT3 3.6 into one.

 

Porsche knew about the oiling issues as early in 1999, and recommended that R compound tires not be used on the 986 and 996.

While I agree generally with your post above - the new motors, for a variety of reasons, are not as ideally suited for track use as the motors based on the older split case models... PAG's admonition about track tire use, does not mention R-compound tires... they specifically call out the use of slicks as something they'll not accept warranty claims from...

Page 2 of the 2006 CS owner's manual:

The fitting of racing tires (e.g. slicks) for sporting
events is not approved by Porsche. Very high cornering
speeds can be achieved with racing tires.
However, the resulting transverse acceleration
values would jeopardize the adequate supply of oil
to the engine.
Porsche therefore will not accept any warranty or
accept any liability for damage occurring as a result
of non-compliance with this provision.

brad

 

Lets all keep in mind that this is also a problem on the 996 and 997. Except the GT3, GT2 and Turbo.

I never had any problem with my car with stock suspension and stock tires.

The Cayman shows the problem more than the others, because the car acheives .25 PLUS more lateral G's than the normal 997.
This is not because the car has a special problem. Its because the handling is too good for the engine pollution control device design.

Yes the factory knows about the oil ingestion problem and so do many dealers. I was warned that this would happen as soon as I lowered the car and installed Hoosiers. So I knew what I was getting into. Maybe I was hoping they were wrong or that my car was 'special'. But having to fix this problem is something I was expecting.

This is not unlike buying a GT3 or RS and having to change all the factory settings and bushings to make it a track car. This is just more of a hassle AND the Cayman is so new that there are NO diffusion of experts that can fix it immediately, like there is on the 997.

In fact, the oil seperator that I installed on the Cayman was recommended by someone that had the same problem on a 997 3.8x51 conversion that had a near perfect setup, and could pull some lateral Gs close to my Cayman. Its a 10min fix on a 997. But a 10 hour fix on a Cayman, because the wiring harness and smog blower have to be moved out of the way.

 

What does this fix actually do? Prevent the blowing smoke only? It doesn't address the oil starvation issue does it?

 

Anyone on this board experiencing this at Watkins Glen? There's a left hand turn after the carousel at the end of a fast down hill stretch. From what's been posted here on the subject I imagine the smoke issue might occur here. Thanks in advance.

 

No Smoke Whatsoever

I spent an hour at the track today, to test my new GT3 brakes, spherical bushings and my new porsche motorsports oil seperator.

I pushed the car pretty hard. Passed a couple of GT3s. I purposely took some corners in second that I had been taking in 3rd and I go no smoke puffs at all. In the past, taking those corners in 2nd gear caused a lot of smoke and the engine to bog down.

Then after setting for 30 mins, when I restarted the car.... instead of the huge smoke cloud, there was no smoke whatsoever. :dance:
I have a PCA DE next weekend, I will see if I have the same experience after 2 days of hard driving.

 

Glenn,

Nice to hear that it's working. Who did you get the parts from?

 

It looks like you can order it from getporscheparts.com cheaper than what I paid. If that does not work, you can try RUF or one of the racing team support companies.

But remember it is a 1 day job. Its minutes to mount the MS oil separator but hours to figure out how to remount the auxiliary blower, wiring harness, shorten the vacuum line and install a longer return line hose. If you are near Dallas, the RUF AutoCenter might be willing to do it, they quoted me 10 hours labor.

 

Thanks Glenn. Sadly I'm in upstate NY so Dallas is unlikely for me. Any others have these mods done a little closer to NY?

 

I have discussed this with Ernie a Mantis Motorsports and he is looking into the possibility of doing a kit.

Maybe Farhnbacher-Loles would be willing to give it a try?
Really any race car builder has done a lot of harder things than this.

 

Glenn, I will be out there this weekend with you and I have appreciate your input on what to expect......but do I need to worry about some of these things that are being talked about.....or should I just take it leisurely and see how I like my first time out there.....as things get closer the more anxious I get. I also just got my Quaife and will wait to get it installed after the DE.....should I get it done before or see what it is like without it first so that I can draw a comparison......so many questions....thanks.

 

Don't worry about any of it, at all. This is your first DE. Its not the same as your Ducati days. You have to get a feel for the car before you are going to be pulling 1.25 to 1.5 Gs in the corners.

No reason to take it easy on the Cayman. PUSH IT!!! The Cayman is a fine platform, easy to drive on the track, very reliable in all ways. You should expect to have ZERO problems with your car on the track.

In fact, I had no problems at all until I had a few thousand track miles under my belt, got into the advanced driving group, added coilovers, added hooisers and added a track set up on the suspension. There was some smoke while I was on Toyos, but no engine bog down. I learned to stop the bog down for the most part, by not doing high G corners above 5k RPM.

I also don't think this is a problem that just shows up one day. For me it was a progression of more and more smoke, to the point that it was obvious that I had to do something. Until you see garage filling smoke on start up (like I did), your fellow drivers see excessive smoke, you get black flagged for smoke (like I did), or the engine bogs in the high G corners (like mine), you don't need to do anything to prepare for this in advance. Nothing wrong with waiting for it to show up.

Keep in mind that problem disappears when you stop driving on the track and return the car to the street. Come out and pass some 911's and you will see how good the Cayman really is.

 

Just a "smoke" update from out West - gemars came up to Las Vegas for our LVR-PCA DE event this last weekend at Spring Mountain, and we threw our cars around both days pretty darn good, and Greg got some small smoke puffs on start-up, and I saw none at all from my car, even on start-up. He was running on Nitto NT-1s and has Sport Chrono, PASM, a Quaife, and Softronic software... I was on MPSCs and am otherwise stock with Sport Chrono and PASM.

You can see a video of him chasing me here: http://www.planet-9.com/cayman-competition/20833-chased-cayman-s-spring-mountan-yesterday.html#post233241

brad

 

I was going to do an article on this..... but here are some photos of the Motor sport Oil Separator finished install.

by the way, no matter how hard this is, its easier on the Cayman than the 996 or 997. We can do this from the top, they have to drop the 911 engine to get to the oil separator. We just have a little tighter space to fit it all in.

 

No Smoke Whatsoever

3 hard track days after installing the Porsche Motorsport oil separator and I can report that there is no smoke whatsoever.
In addition, I did not use any oil at all. Normally on the track I have been burning 1/2 to 1 quart of oil a day. But now after 3 days, the oil level indicator did not move at all.
Smoke and oil consumption problems solved.

 

I had my first severe smoke experience on track. The last lap of the 2nd day, yesterday, during open lapping at Putnam Park. I had the stock PS2 tires, it was my cool down lap, the temperature was 40 degrees. I was tired and in 2nd gear, I should have been in 3rd gear for turn 8. I was forced to shift to 3rd just before the track out point, going uphill. My shift wasn't timed for smoothness and I was rewarded by a dense cloud of smoke, the likes of which I have never seen before. The first time, what a surprise and on the last lap, but I deserved it, my punishment for bad driving.

 

I experienced a huge plume of smoke Sat. at the Harris Hill Road track event in San Marcos. It was a long, high G left hander, and I freaked out at how much smoke it put out since I'd never read about this isssue before. FWIW, I'm on base suspension, w/ 18" PS2's. I brought it in, left it sit for a while, and heard it's not uncommon. Started it up again in the paddock, and should have rolled up the windows first - my interior was filled w/ smoke! I drove it down the road to check it out, and the smoke cleared.

I spent the rest of the afternoon in a slower group, and had no more problems.

 

I think it's unacceptable to have a Porsche that I can't use on a track day because I get black flagged. I also don't think I should have to buy after market fixes just to get thru a Time Trial! This is a Porsche!! If it were a Lexus SUV this would be an entirely different conversation.

So..
Since my earlier post, I have taken the car into the dealership for a checkout. They report "no problem". So now, I am pressing forward and will report.

 

I think it's unacceptable to have a Porsche that I can't use on a track day because I get black flagged. I also don't think I should have to buy after market fixes just to get thru a Time Trial! This is a Porsche!! If it were a Lexus SUV this would be an entirely different conversation.

Porsche do offer track cars such as GT3/2 and RS.

but the cayman is at heart a coupe for road use. and the principles to which its build and designed is probably "a two door coupe you could use everyday"