Re: The Worst Review of any Porsche I've read

Gentlemen,
In respect to the Forum terms and rules, this is a reminder that no political discussions here are allowed. Therefore, I had to edit the violating posts to prevent the situation from escalating.

How does it feel when a Middle Eastern brings peace to the forum across the ocean? Ken, I expect a Noble Prize

Let's leave politics aside, guys, and enjoy our toys instead.

 

Re: The Worst Review of any Porsche I've read

That's very good Hassaan. At least a Noble Prize I would say lol.

To all the others, I apologize for bringing a political slant to my post, I typically think of politics as more of supporting a candidate or a party and being generally off topic. Since I believe it was mandates created by politicians that has at least to my knowledge compelled Porsche and others to start turbo charging their engines, I let my antagonism at this get carried away in the context of the turbo 4 topic. Frankly, I consider myself an independent and dislike politics and politicians across the board for the most part. I am glad this forum is free of politics and again my apologies to anyone offended.

What I wanted to say and should have said originally instead of going into a rant is that I hope we all continue to live in a world where we are free to choose and drive those automobiles that stir our passion. Whether they contain large NA petrol engines, small turbos or hybrid solutions. I imagine we all feel grateful for being able to enjoy such wonderful cars every day.

Cheers

Gentlemen,
In respect to the Forum terms and rules, this is a reminder that no political discussions here are allowed. Therefore, I had to edit the violating posts to prevent the situation from escalating.

How does it feel when a Middle Eastern brings peace to the forum across the ocean? Ken, I expect a Noble Prize

Let's leave politics aside, guys, and enjoy our toys instead.

 

I was thinking more along the lines of Drivetribe's video content actually, which is well superior of EVO's at the moment.

But it seems to me that there's two different philosophies here, a data driven or emotional one. Whilst you can't totally separate the two, I think it's fair to blast Porsche when their new car takes a step forward for the first but a big step backwards for the latter. Especially when the mid-engine platform was never about numbers (that's the 911's game) but the driving experience.

At a time in history when these cars are already very very fast, a few tenths here and there shouldn't be a huge deal. For people who think otherwise, there is the 911. I think the pushback against the 718 from certain outlets is less against the car itself but rather the cynicism with which Porsche (by their own admission) wanted to increase the gap to the 911. And it's a welcome rare opportunity to bash a Porsche for something, they've been too flawless for too long.

 

Hey guys, new to the forum, but i thought I'd give my 2 cents. I've never owned a Porsche myself, but my dad had a 987 boxster, 997, and a 991 S so I am quite accustomed to the sound and ride of a Porsche. Personally I've had 2 S4s and now an SQ5 because those cars were simply more functional for a guy in his late 20s, early 30s and now with a family.

This year I've decided to take the plunge and get a car for weekend driving and the track. I'm fortunate for living in San Francisco and having fantastic driving roads around me like route 35 skyline, coastline highway 1, and Napa.

About a month ago I went to my local Porsche dealer looking for a ride in the new 718. When I got there I saw a very nice sapphire blue metallic 981 base Cayman. I decided to take a ride in that car. It had the PDK. After a spirited test drive I was genuinely surprised how fun it was to drive. The car sounded incredible to me. I had the biggest smile on my face. The car felt a little slow but I felt like I could own that car and still be happy which really surprised me since my S4 was clearly a faster car. This is when I realized 0-60 time doesn't equal a measure of fun. Any car sub 5s would probably make me happy. I was running late for a party so I had to call it a day after the test drive.

The next week I did a lot of research. At this point I was reading this forum daily and watching tons of YouTube reviews of the 981 S, GTS, GT4 and 718. Despite the reviews I really wanted a new car and European delivery experience. I headed over to the Porsche site and configured a personalized 718 Cayman S. I felt really excited about the way this car looked. It was a beaut. The next day, I went to a bigger dealership that had a 718 Boxster S w/PDK and a used grey 2014 981 S 6 speed manual.

I drove the 981 first. I immediately noticed the speed increase from the 981 base I drove a week prior. The engine sounded incredible. I felt like I was in a race car. The handling, frankly, blew me away. I felt like I was on rails going around the turn. Never before had I thought to myself, *I want this car now, RIGHT now. I don't want to get out and do paper work. I want to kick the salesman out now and go straight to the mountains.* The test drive ended and adrenaline was flowing. I was amped.

Next up, the 718 Boxster S. The color of this car was a boring dark blue. Certainly not the Miami blue that sucked me in on the website. I got in the car and started the engine and heard the deep rumble of the new 2.5. It was definitely jarring. It didn't sound like a Porsche I had ever driven. I pulled out of the dealership and got on the pedal. I was flabbergasted. My adrenaline high was over. The sound was awful in comparison. I looked at the salesman an asked him "could you do this?" He replied with an honest "No." He then told me about his training experience where the entire sales team was underwhelmed by the sound of the 2.5L turbo. I continued the drive. It was clear that the new 718 S is a faster car than the 981 S that I just got out of. The throttle response was certainly not unacceptable for me as a previous GTI owner, but not up to par with my S4's 3.0 supercharged v6. The car still handled like it should, but I wasn't smiling. Winding out the gears wasn't exciting. A completely lackluster experience. I really wanted to like it. I guess I should have never driven the 981.

So to sum it all up, I'll be purchasing a 981 S, GTS, or GT4 later this year. The 718 just paled in comparison.

 

Re: The Worst Review of any Porsche I've read

I have had my 718 for about 4 weeks and still had my 2014 981 for the first two weeks I owned the 718. People are saying the only thing that is better on the 718 is performance. Well I have to adamantly disagree with that. I think the 718 is better in almost every way. I drove both a few times after I received my 718 and every time I was in the 981 I couldn’t wait to park it and get into the 718. Here are some of the differences that I observed.
1. In the low RPM ranges the 718 seemed to be waiting to accelerate. Just giving it a little gas made it jump and the acceleration is great. I enjoyed the sound in the low RPM range just as much as the 981. Above 5000 RPM, the 981 did sound better but around town the 718 was great. With the top down, the 718 seemed to be louder and sounded better than the 981.
2. The 718 now has better brakes than the 981
3. Suspension has been upgraded
4. Steering response is quicker and you seem to be more in control
5. Voice connect seems to understand me better than my 2016 Macan
6. You can mix FM and AM stations on the favorites page on the radio so you don’t have to change bands to switch between your favorite AM and FM stations
7. Nav database is much larger and it is easier to enter new waypoints.
8. You can start and stop the nav guidance from the map page
9. The next turn guidance displays better and there are a few more functions available
10. The blind spot warning indicators are more visible and get your attention better than on my 2016 Macan. They work at a lower speed than on the Macan. It is a lot more useful in slow stop and go traffic.
11. The adaptive cruise control is much better than on the Macan. The Macan is very rough, doesn’t slow down until the last minute and you are ready to start slowing yourself before it does. The Macan will shift down 2 gears and rev up to 5000 RPM if you change from a slow traffic lane to an open lane.
12.The 718 slows sooner when traffic slows and accelerates smoother. If you change to an open lane it will shift down 1 gear but with all its torque you really accelerate without increasing your RPM that much.
13.If you engage the sport mode you will be in the turbo range most of the time so there is no turbo lag. Of course economy goes down. But why do you own a sports car unless you enjoy it every way you can.
14.In my normal driving around San Diego, I am getting a little less mileage than on my 981 but I can’t resist pushing it every time I get a chance. On a 60 mile trip through the hills and winding roads from San Diego to Julien I got 29 MPG.
15.I really liked my 981 but the 718 is just so much more fun to drive. The only thing that I liked better on the 981 was if you turned off the engine cutoff function when you stopped, it would stay off then next time you drove. On the 718 it resets to the on position every time you restart the car. So now I automatically push the button every time I start the car so the engine doesn't shut down when I stop.

 

Re: The Worst Review of any Porsche I've read

I have had my 718 for about 4 weeks and still had my 2014 981 for the first two weeks I owned the 718. People are saying the only thing that is better on the 718 is performance. Well I have to adamantly disagree with that. I think the 718 is better in almost every way. I drove both a few times after I received my 718 and every time I was in the 981 I couldn’t wait to park it and get into the 718. Here are some of the differences that I observed.
1. In the low RPM ranges the 718 seemed to be waiting to accelerate. Just giving it a little gas made it jump and the acceleration is great. I enjoyed the sound in the low RPM range just as much as the 981. Above 5000 RPM, the 981 did sound better but around town the 718 was great. With the top down, the 718 seemed to be louder and sounded better than the 981.
2. The 718 now has better brakes than the 981
3. Suspension has been upgraded
4. Steering response is quicker and you seem to be more in control
5. Voice connect seems to understand me better than my 2016 Macan
6. You can mix FM and AM stations on the favorites page on the radio so you don’t have to change bands to switch between your favorite AM and FM stations
7. Nav database is much larger and it is easier to enter new waypoints.
8. You can start and stop the nav guidance from the map page
9. The next turn guidance displays better and there are a few more functions available
10. The blind spot warning indicators are more visible and get your attention better than on my 2016 Macan. They work at a lower speed than on the Macan. It is a lot more useful in slow stop and go traffic.
11. The adaptive cruise control is much better than on the Macan. The Macan is very rough, doesn’t slow down until the last minute and you are ready to start slowing yourself before it does. The Macan will shift down 2 gears and rev up to 5000 RPM if you change from a slow traffic lane to an open lane.
12.The 718 slows sooner when traffic slows and accelerates smoother. If you change to an open lane it will shift down 1 gear but with all its torque you really accelerate without increasing your RPM that much.
13.If you engage the sport mode you will be in the turbo range most of the time so there is no turbo lag. Of course economy goes down. But why do you own a sports car unless you enjoy it every way you can.
14.In my normal driving around San Diego, I am getting a little less mileage than on my 981 but I can’t resist pushing it every time I get a chance. On a 60 mile trip through the hills and winding roads from San Diego to Julien I got 29 MPG.
15.I really liked my 981 but the 718 is just so much more fun to drive. The only thing that I liked better on the 981 was if you turned off the engine cutoff function when you stopped, it would stay off then next time you drove. On the 718 it resets to the on position every time you restart the car. So now I automatically push the button every time I start the car so the engine doesn't shut down when I stop.

I appreciate your insight and willingness to share with us your experience with both a 981 and 718, however most of your positives for the 718 I simply am not concerned with. As someone that cares mostly about the interaction between man and machine and not much else items 6-15 wouldn't even be on my radar when sports car shopping. Again thanks for the education.:thanks:

 

Re: The Worst Review of any Porsche I've read

Porsche just seems absolutely determined to clip the Cayman's wings to make moving to a 911 the (obvious) choice.

Seriously, it had to be more expensive to create an all new engine than to allow the Cayman to share an engine with the 911s.

What we want is a Cayman like the GT4. What Porsche wants is to force us to buy 911s.

 

Re: The Worst Review of any Porsche I've read

Porsche just seems absolutely determined to clip the Cayman's wings to make moving to a 911 the (obvious) choice.

Seriously, it had to be more expensive to create an all new engine than to allow the Cayman to share an engine with the 911s.

What we want is a Cayman like the GT4. What Porsche wants is to force us to buy 911s.

I agree with the sentiment, however to be fair, Porsche did give the Cayman the 911 engine e.g. the 3.4l as found in the 981S and GTS and the 3.8l as found in the Spyder and GT4 (allbeit with a small number of different parts and what amounts to different states of tune).

I think what Porsche have missed is the simple fact there are a number (possibly many) 981 owners that would buy a 981 for the same amount of money in preference to a 911 if the engines were the same (or at least very similar).

There are probably many people, like myself, that see the 911 as overly large, overly heavy with a horror story of an interior e.g. giant parcel shelf as a dash board, cluttered instrument cluster and useless back seats (unless you're called snow white and your family members are named sneezy, bashful, dopey, grumpy and happy etc) and thus prefer the simplicity and elegance of the 981 design.

On another point, at least in Australia, the Porsche "entry" level cars are the Cayenne and Macan with the advertising tag line of "The short cut to your dreams" - squarely aimed at those that need a badge to feel whole.

Anyhow, back to the article, the fact that EVO excoriated Porsche for the 718 is very telling. I will be attending the 718 unveiling over here in OZ and will provide some honest feedback (as others have done).

 

Re: The Worst Review of any Porsche I've read

I drive with the AC on at full blast on a hot day with the top down in an effort to cool the hot ambient air. I am doing my part. Every little bit helps to combat warming.
Yes, I am not very mature even at my age.

 

Re: The Worst Review of any Porsche I've read

I drive with the AC on at full blast on a hot day with the top down in an effort to cool the hot ambient air. I am doing my part. Every little bit helps to combat warming.
Yes, I am not very mature even at my age.

But if you really cared, you'd leave your refrigerator door open, to help your home A/C keep the house cool!

 

Worst thread ever?

 

Excellent points Grand-Cayman. The missing link for me is the mechanism of anthropomorphic climate change. The case for this depends on a pretty sketchy idea called "tipping point". If you look at the amount of greenhouse gasses produced via "natural" causes, they outweigh anthropomorphic causes by factors of millions x (most of it comes from the oceans). The Tipping Point theory goes like this: "Over billions of years, the Earth has achieved a delicate climate balance with many sources and sinks of greenhouse gasses balancing themselves out to create a stable climate. Add in Humans and you reach a 'Tipping Point' where the climate stars to degrade significantly."


Sounds like a reasonable theory, but it is just a theory. And there are a couple of problems here:
1. There's no model that accounts for the "tipping point", it is simply assumed and fitted to the observed data. That's not an explanation
2. The assumption of "stability" is pretty sketchy. Sure, in human lifetimes climate change seems very slow, but the climate has been changing for 3.6 billion years. 10,000 years ago my office in Boston would have been covered by a mile high glacier (if you want to see the extent of this, take a trip to NYC and look across the river to New Jersey where the Glacier Drive ended and deposited millions of tons of rock, the moraine, forming the southern shore of the Hudson)
3. Looking back in geological history you can find several major extinction events, one at the Permian–Triassic boundary being incredibly interesting. The likely cause was a massive global warming caused by something called "Siberian Traps". Imagine a volcano the size of the United states erupting constantly for approximately 2 million years, spewing out approximately as much carbon emissions in on day as Humans will spew out in approximately 100,000 years. And this went on for 2 million years... this massive event eventually contributed to the so called "great dying" where 90% of earthlife disappeared (Damn you Trilobites! You look like you'd be so delicious in a nice butter sauce.. now I'll never know!). The point being that even with these incredibly severe forces, the climate change took millions of years to happen, it didn't "tip".


And... there are other theories.


Look up "the little ice age" and the "year without summer" (1816). The Thames froze over. It was a bleak period of Global Climate Cooling. Clearly this shows that other forces can significantly affect climate, this may have been caused by volcanic activity. All it takes is one Krakatoa to drop the equivalent of a nuclear winter for a couple of years. There were, in fact many periods of temperature fluctuation in the past (Mediaeval Warm Period for example) where anthropomorphic activity cannot be the culprit. Again, there really is no such thing as a "stable" climate, simply some stretches where the climate does not alter drastically. Up until recently, much climate change could be correlated sunspot activity (this has somewhat petered off, leading some observers to question the accuracy of sunspot readings from earlier centuries).


I don't think that anyone can deny that the climate changes and is in an active phase of changing in our lifetimes. And, people naturally wonder about the cause of these changes. In a system as large and complex as the Earth, it's hard to find simple, unambiguous cause and effect correlations. "Global Warming is Caused By Humans" is a pretty simplistic argument that people can get behind or deny without trying to understand the nuance of the system's complexity.


The argument is over the cause and our ability to influence it. Anthropomorphic change is a favorite of the left, natural climate change the explanation on the right. The truth, as always is probably somewhere in the middle.

Perhaps we can all agree that this is a topic for other threads and will not be solved here and get back to stating how much we hate/love the new 718 exhaust sound? ( I hate it -- bring back the 6's!)

 

Perhaps we can all agree that this is a topic for other threads and will not be solved here and get back to stating how much we hate/love the new 718 exhaust sound? ( I hate it -- bring back the 6's!)

Great info! I'll try to gently lead us back to the topic...in the sweltering heat in the year 2075 Tesla will publish a paper "Global warming traced back to Porsche IC owners removing their cats and altering their software all in the name of noise and horsepower, and the noise wasn't even that great!"

 

The topic is how great the 718 is compared to the 981. The only disappointment with the turbo four engines seems to be from people that don't own one. Compared to my 2014 981 my 718 is superior in every respect. I personally now like the sound of it as well as my 981. You don't seem to own a 718 thus you aren't really able to really compare the two cars, your opinion only comes from repeating comments from people like yourself that probably don't own a 718. You are probably disturbed that the price of a 718 base is about $8,000 less than your 981S but has about the same or better performance. How would you feel if the people that owned the 718 went on the 981 board all the time and kept telling you how much better the 718 was than your 981. You probably wouldn't like it. Be happy with your 981 and let us be happy with our 718's. If you don't like our car so be it because I haven't heard any negative comments from 718 owners except some don't like the sound as much as the 981.

 

Wrong thread for two reasons:

1. We've been talking autonomous vehicles the last 10 pages, and I suspect it will continue if someone doesn't get us back on-topic
2. This thread is originally about the mostly crappy reviews the 718 has collected since its introduction. There is a fan-thread where 718 fans are left alone. Go there

What I find a bit offensive with your post is that you seem to think someone who doesn't own a 718 can't have an opinion. That is totally BS. In my case I could have waited one or two months and ordered a 718 but instead I managed to get my hands on one of the last 981s. This because I could imagine what the 718 would be like. Still, to give the car the benefit of the doubt, I booked a test drive of a 718S once they came to the dealers. I went there with an open mind but after the drive I was 100% convinced I made the right choice.

I would tend to trust more the people who do NOT own a certain product because as soon as you put down your own money, you tend to justify your purchase more (buyers bias). We've had a case on a Swedish P-forum where someone was really talking up his new 718 and at the same time having it listed for sale after just 5000km...

So, no need to own the car to have an opinion. Do you discard all automotive journalists opinions too? They very seldom own the cars they write about.

 

I just went back to the original post from a year ago (the EVO review) and the early follow up comments made here after that original post. And now, after 1000 miles in the 718 Boxster S, I kind of just shake my head in amazement. I love this car - it's as good if not better than most of the Porsches I've owned. And, actually, it sounds a heck of a lot better than the stock exhaust in my 991 Turbo S (yes, opinion). So I ask myself, what am I missing - I mean, how could I be so wrong to enjoy this car so much when it was so damned by EVO etc.?

I wonder if I had read that article initially would I have ever test driven the 718 - what a shame if others choose to pass on the 718 because of it.

 

Although I have no data to support my view, I doubt that any 718 sales were lost because of negative press. Sports car buyers who can afford to spend $80K+ on what is essentially a toy are unlikely to be influenced by the opinions of others. The Porsche dealers near me have many 718s on their lots. So it's easy enough to get a test drive. On my last service visit I was encouraged by a sales manager to test drive a $90K 718BS. Although I prefer my 981 BS to a 718 BS, there's no question that the 718 is an outstanding sports car.
As to why you like the 718 a lot more than some reviewer shouldn't be surprising, since it would be by sheer chance that a reviewer would have the same evaluation criteria as you do. Bottom line is that I believe that the vast majority of enthusiasts would much rather have a car that they loved and everyone else didn't, rather than the other way around. I've owned Porsches for decades and many of the people in my social group believe that I'm foolish for spending so much money on an impractical car. Most of them drive cars like an Audi A8 or Lexus LS 460 which are large practical cars. I just don't buy cars to impress others, nor do I need the approval of my peers for my selection.

 

Re: The Worst Review of any Porsche I've read

Yesterday I went by my Porsche dealership and looked at a 981 Black Edition. The salesman worked up some numbers and I decided to trade. I'm picking it up today.

I had trouble sleeping last night because I wasn't sure that I was doing the right thing. Should I get this car? Maybe I should wait and get a 718??? But the 981 Black Edition sorta' cool. It is a flat-six and one of the last flat-sixes to come off the line. But a flat-four turbo might be cool. After reading that I think I made the right decision.

I sincerely hope that the 718 succeeds. I'm not against it. I guess I am just not 100% for it right now. Maybe I will look at one three or four years down the road. :cheers:

 

Re: The Worst Review of any Porsche I've read

Yesterday I went by my Porsche dealership and looked at a 981 Black Edition. The salesman worked up some numbers and I decided to trade. I'm picking it up today.

I had trouble sleeping last night because I wasn't sure that I was doing the right thing. Should I get this car? Maybe I should wait and get a 718??? But the 981 Black Edition sorta' cool. It is a flat-six and one of the last flat-sixes to come off the line. But a flat-four turbo might be cool. After reading that I think I made the right decision.

I sincerely hope that the 718 succeeds. I'm not against it. I guess I am just not 100% for it right now. Maybe I will look at one three or four years down the road. :cheers:

I did the exact same thing last year. There was absolutely nothing wrong with my 2011 Cayman S, but I traded for a 2015 Cayman GTS. Wanted one of the last 6 cylinders in a Cayman. Do not regret my decision. Congratulations on your purchase. Enjoy the drive!

 

Re: The Worst Review of any Porsche I've read

My takeaway is savior your 987/981. It's a great car, but as Porsche's financial strength improves, not one they are committed to keeping as great as it was. I still would argue the financial crisis of the 90s made them go all in on the Boxster, but as SUVs have come along to save the company they are doing to the 718 what they did with the 944, 924, 914, etc, which is to build a good car, but one that kept its distance from the 911. The GT4 sort of proved the superiority of the platform and it seems like they want to take those findings into the 960.

Personally I've got my eye on the 2016+ Miata. If I'm going to have a 4 cylinder, at least it will only have to push around 2300 lbs. Until then, life is rough driving one of the finest mid engined cars ever built, but I'll suffer through it somehow.

 

Re: The Worst Review of any Porsche I've read

Here's the Torque curve on the GT4 MFD.

 

Re: The Worst Review of any Porsche I've read

Gary, work with us here. You can't quote the sales report -- i.e., "Sports car demand was strong across the board with Boxster and Cayman model lines each yielding a 36 percent sales increase over last year, with 732 combined sales" -- and not realize those numbers must include some or mostly 6-cylinder Boxsters and can only be 6-cylinder Caymans.

Again, I don't have a dog in the fight. In a few months we'll all know whether Porsche's run out of early adopters or the company's on to something.

 

I posted this thread a few weeks ago and thought I would update it for those that might not have read the original one. I have had my 718 for about 4 weeks and still had my 2014 981 for the first two weeks I owned the 718. People are saying the only thing that isbetter on the 718 is performance. Well I have to adamantly disagree with that. I think the 718 is better in almost every way. I drove both a few times after I received my 718 and every time I was in the 981 I couldn’t wait to park it and get into the 718. Some of you made comments that why spend money on getting a new car that only gave you a little more acceleration. I like a lot of creature comforts on acar. Here are the new options I got on the 718 that I could not get on my 2014 981. Keyless entry and start, backup camera, adaptive cruise control, blindside protection, and ventilated seats. So I got a lot more than acceleration, yes it cost me a lot of money but I wanted them on my 981 and couldn’t get them. Here are some of the differences that I observed. In the low RPM ranges the 718 seemed to be waiting to accelerate. Just giving it a little gas made it jump andt he acceleration is great. I enjoyed the sound in the low RPM range just as much as the 981. If you have the sport mode on, it really sounds good at low RPM’s Above 5000RPM, the 981 did sound better but around town the 718 was great. With the top down, the 718 seemed to be louder and sounded better than the 981.
1. The base 718 now has the 981S brakes because of the greater acceleration.
2. Suspension has been upgraded
3. Steering response is quicker and you seem to have more control
4. Voice connect seems to understand me better than my 2016 Macan
5. You can mix FM and AM stations on the favorites page on the radio so you don’t have to change bands to switch between your favorite AM and FM stations
6. Nav database is much larger and it is easier toenter new waypoints.
7. You can start and stop the nav guidance from the map page
8. The next turn guidance displays better and there are a few more functions available
9. The blindspot warning indicators are more visible and get your attention better than onmy 2016 Macan. They work at a much lowerspeed than on the Macan. It is a lot more useful in slow stop and go traffic.
10. The adaptive cruise controlis much better than on the Macan. The Macan is very rough, doesn’t slow down until the last minute and you are ready to start slowing yourself before it does. The Macan will shift down 2 gears and rev up to 5000 RPM if you change from a slow traffic lane to an open lane.
11.The 718 slows sooner when traffic slows and accelerates smoother. If you change to an open lane it will shift down 1 gear but with all its torque you really accelerate without increasing your RPM that much.
12.If you engage the sport mode you will be in the turbo range most of the time so there is no turbo lag. Of course economy goes down. But why do you own a sports car unless you enjoy it every way you can.
13.In my normal driving around San Diego, I am getting about the same mileage as on my 981 but I can’t resist pushing it every time I get a chance. On a 60 mile trip through the hills and winding roads from San Diego to Julien Igot 29 MPG. Yesterday I drove 25 miles on the freeway at 70 MPH and it recorded 33.9 MPG
14.When I made a max turn at slow speeds the 981 felt like it was jumping sideways and really made me feel anxious. The 718 turns smoothly and has a shorter turn radius.
15.I really liked my 981 but the 718 is just so much more fun to drive. I can’t think of anything that I liked better on the 981 than the 718 except on the 718 the engine cutoff when you stop is the default position and if you shut it off, the next time you start the car it is on again. The dealer said you can’t have the option to have it turned off all the time. They did that to help make the car more environment friendly. So the motor is the only difference between the two.
16.It seems like most of the posts on the 718 board are 981 owners that are trying to justify why they would not want to buy the 718. I thought about putting this post on their board but they might put out a contract on me. HaHa. We can all buy what we want and should be happy that we are fortunate enough to own any Porsche so don’t rain on the parade of those of us that own the 718.

 

I posted this thread a few weeks ago and thought I would update it for those that might not have read the original one.

I think its great you like your new car. Have fun. OTH, you should also realize that 9 of your 16 points are things those that drive appliances care about and are the same for econoboxes.

I mean really, who cares the Nav has a data base? WAZE is FREE and is continually updated LIVE and crowdsourced. PCM is a massive waste of money. MPG? People buy Porsches and care about MPG? When I read things like "You can start and stop the nav guidance from the map page". My eyes glaze over. This is a reason why you think one car is better than the other? This is a what my washing machine does or the TV is that new refrigerator. When sports car enthusiasts read this, I know its important to you, but I am also sure many go Who makes car buying decisions based upon "stuff that makes your eyes glaze over"?

But seriously, I do understand these are important to YOU. And thats' cool. But also realize, they are not important to many others. Its a two way street. So let me help you out here for a new list. Don't focus on this electronics/PCM/Nav/Smartphone stuff. Sports cars are for driving not doing distracted driving. Tell us:

1. how many more Gs your pulling in a circle than the 981. You have a gauge for that.
2. how much better the car sounds at WOT
3. how much shorter in feet the car stops 60 - 0. How many feet? 110 feet? 100 feet?
4. how tight is the turning circle between cars?
5. how tight is the new SPASM suspension vs the X73 suspension. What is the spring weight differences and how do the feel with SPASM on vs X73?
6. how much does the torque curve (and hence acceleration drop) between 5K and redline?
7. What is the wet braking performance difference

stuff like this. But if you focus on stuff like "voice connect is better than my Macan" well, to be frank, you just probably lost a lot of sports car people. WHO TALKS TO CARS? That is the sign of a washing machine.

That all said, - please Have fun and don't worry about what others say. The only thing important to you is how YOU feel about yourself and your car.

One more thing. How do you feel when you get out of it? The same as the Macan? Do you feel better after driving it? Do you cannot wait to get back in and go out again? Do you drive just to drive? Do you take it for a spin just to .... take it for a spin? Do you row through gears just to hear the symphony behind you? Do you downshift just to heel and toe? Do you want to hear the revs go up and down and force a quick flick of the wrist and clutch to downshift just to hear it? These are the things why one seek the twisties for ... just to do the twisties. I think new buyers might want to hear its just as good in a 718 as in a 987 or 981. Sell the new owners on how much better the driving experience is - not on some map they can get for free on their iPhone.

 

"I find it particularly risible when six-a-holics dismiss the 718's performance advantage as being unimportant to a real sports car. Performance isn't everything, of course, but it's a pretty big part of the traditional definition of "sports car".

This is a straw man argument. I don't recall any poster dismissing the 718's performance advantage as being unimportant. What has been stated by me and many others is that we aren't about to trade-in our 6cyl 981 for a 4 cylinder 718 just because it is a couple of tenths of a second faster in a 0 - 60.

 

In this same thread, you previously said: The gain in HP and faster 0 - 60 are irrelevant to me. <snip> Moreover, since I won't be taking my car to any dragstrip nor engage in street racing, a coupe of tenths of a second means nothing to me.
So fine, maybe you said it was "irrelevant" and "means nothing to me", rather than it's "unimportant", but that's a pretty narrow distinction.

And Chow has said in this thread: Performance numbers, at a certain point, became meaningless. Why? How many 718 buyers will do club racing with their cars? No? Then what does it matter?
And even earlier in this thread, in reference to "1. In the low RPM ranges the 718 seemed to be waiting to accelerate. Just giving it a little gas made it jump and the acceleration is great.", Chow said: At least I would never buy a car based upon #1... (but other items from list) are, of course, more attuned to what a sports car is supposed to do.

I'm pretty confident this isn't an exhaustive list of such statements, (and I'm only listing them as examples, not to pick on specific posters, because there are many offenders), so I don't think my statement was a straw man at all.

Also, six-a-holics. Just wanted to say that again.

-Brett

 

I am a scientist. I know what I know and publish papers in peer-reviewed journals in my field. And I have numerous patents. Climate researchers do what they do. I am not qualified to evaluate their methodology or conclusions. But a majority of them have a reached a consensus on climate change. Fine, if it doesn't agree with your personal values or judgement. Doesn't mean it is wrong. As a scientist, I trust the general consensus. Doesn't mean it can't change as we learn more.
Even in my tiny, niche field, people in marketing especially ask me for certainties. No self respecting scientist will ever do that. Unless you work in the area, no one is any position to judge whether the science is right or wrong. I have had many arguments with senior management types who think scientists should present them with guarantees and I will never do that. Unless of course you happen to be a talk radio host. Then you can spout whatever comes to your mind and people are free to believe it or not.

 

I also have published papers, won awards, have patents. I've sat on program committees for peer-reviewing papers. In my experience in my own field, program committees get it wrong often enough that I believe it takes a generation or two to know for sure. And the funding sources influence what research can be done. And if someone does great work as a grad student, when he starts teaching his students' work gets unconscious positive bias, so that ideas that were introduced well tend to be over-invested in, in the peer-review system, in my experience.

If you can do a controlled experiment, like changing the mixture and trying to start the car, that's one thing. But the climate scientists don't have a parallel earth. I'm not saying it's wrong or right. But I am saying it's reasonable to reserve judgement. I've seen the code in a computer-simulated climate model. I would not trust it very far. The code I saw was very poorly written, and likely buggy.

 

 

"You can argue the science of both of the former forever but it is incontrovertible that we are, rather rapidly, poisoning, raping and otherwise destroying natural ecosystems. Isn't this reason enough to fight for change? "

That kind of language is clearly inflammatory, and reveals some elements of lack of objectivity. The environment cannot be raped, that is a gross inaccuracy. Only humans can be raped. That kind of language trivializes a very heinous criminal act. Clearly the environment can be degraded in different ways and that is undesirable, but what to do about certain environmental issues, what makes an impact, and what measures are cost effective should be part of a rational approach to the subject.

Cheers

 

But haven't you observed political advertisements for the past 12 months. Hyperbole is the new norm which enhances divisiveness. The unfortunate thing is that there are young people who accept the exaggerations as gospel, and hence need counseling to help them get through the grieving period.

 

OK peeps lets cut to the chase - this thread has turned in to a total whinge fest despite the fact there are a lot of positive reviews and awards including 5th place in Autocars - Britains Best Drivers Car 2016.

Most of you have NOT driven the 718S or indeed the 991.2 so you haven't a clue how those engines respond and perform - so why guess and disparage the views of 718 owners who actually bother to give feedback from a position of ownership and knowledge.

Its no wonder 718 owners have just about stopped commenting, too many here have rained on their parade and the enjoyment of their hard earned purchases. Its a shame, its the attitude you see in a number of other forums and in far too many clubs. The end result is always the same, people stop contributing and stop attending.

 

To anyone who enjoys a turbocharged Porsche: enjoy your car! But why would you read a thread titled "Worst 718 Review?"

If someone made a thread titled "The flat-6 is aweful," I can't say that I would be upset. Puzzled, maybe. But my enjoyment of my car does not rely on a consensus of 100% of my peers.

 

Yeah, well...each to their own. I think the 991.2 is the best 911 Porsche has ever made (yes, even compared to revered 993). And I know well the storied history of the NA flat six...and frankly don't give a damn for the nostalgia. (Can I interest you in nice vintage computer with a 386 processor and a 13" monochrome screen to go with your classic Porsche?) The 718 likewise takes the mid-engine platform into the future.

Why are there so many reviews, both negative and (more recently) positive, of the 718? It's because every bozo with a GoPro and an ego thinks that what they think (about the 718 and other matters so trivial as to be inconsequential in the grand scheme of things) matters to someone besides themselves. That assumption is generally incorrect.

I'm pretty sure that at some time before I croak or get tired of performance cars that I will own a 991.2 and a 718. Nothing said here will influence that decision; I've driven both and made up my own mind that they are superb machines, more than worthy of wearing the Porsche nameplate.

 

Why are there so many reviews, both negative and (more recently) positive, of the 718? It's because every bozo with a GoPro and an ego thinks that what they think (about the 718 and other matters so trivial as to be inconsequential in the grand scheme of things) matters to someone besides themselves. That assumption is generally incorrect.

A valid point and one taken by TTAC (I think it was TTAC) in which the point was made ... why do we read reviews made by people who can't drive the cars at 10/10s? Fast to them is not fast to the race car drivers.

OK, throw out all those reviews, both positive and negative. Filter them out. I'm not going to read all this thread again but a few from the top. EVO, CAR, and Chris Harris. I'll trust them. Forget about the gopro journalists.

EVO http://www.evo.co.uk/porsche/17792/porsche-718-boxster-review-why-everything-porsche-touches-doesn-t-always-turn
Disappointing. Underwhelming. Soul destroying … New engine ruins the experience

Car Porsche 718 Boxster S (2016) review by CAR Magazine Firing the Boxster S’s engine into life results in disappointment, unfortunately.

Chris Harris Chris Harris Drives: the Porsche 718 Boxster | Top Gear

“A great little car, just not as good as the one you could have bought last year”.

None of this changes that negative reviews, from reputable and established reviewers, existed to this extent before ... that was the point. I hope that clarified this. BTW, of course we will buy these cars in the future. If you want a new Porsche, we have no choice. Of course they are faster and of course they have more fancy stuff in them. That's evolution. But none of that changes what reputable reviewers have written, and I found that startingling.

 

Here is my quick 2 week review living with a sapphire blue 718 Cayman S.

Firstly the colour attracts a lot of attention and praise.
If attention bothers you, go for white or grey.

On the road it is brilliant, comfortable, fairly fuel efficient and overall I cannot fault it.
The back trunk seems to be a little smaller than the previous generations of cayman, but thats not a deal breaker.

On the topic of sound, I do miss the old 6 cylinder on occasions, but the way the new 4 pot picks up and moves more than makes up for it.
Also a sports exhaust should be mandatory on this car (I switch mine on every single time), and the new sound is honestly its own.
I have come to actually love it.

Comfort-wise I specced sport suspension with 10mm drop. It clears all speed bumps I've come across with ease if that is a concern for anyone.
The ride is firm yet supple even with the 20" Carrera S wheels.
Unless you activate sport suspension, you will hardly feel uneven road surfaces much like an sporty german sedan.

I will give some more feelings on it in due course, but for now I can honestly say buyers regret is non existent and unless you keep to the speed limit and are only interested in sound, the 718 is better than the 981 in every way.

 

This entire thread should be deleted. I own a 981 and am very happy with it. I am going to purchase a 2018 718C and I am certain I will be happy with it.

I just do not understand all the negativity, especially among "brothers and sisters" of the marque. I do not like the 911 or the Corvette and would never purchase one. But I would never go their forums and trash what are indeed excellent cars just because those are not for me!

Sheesh! Enough is enough. Let's move beyond the junior high playground.

 

You do realize that you are not compelled to read every thread, don't you? If you don't like a thread, ignore it and it will die, assuming of course that others share your perspective.

 

I'm only 72, but when I'm old, I'll have a Macan Turbo with the Performance pkg for my daily driver and some sort of flat 6 Porsche garage-queen sportscar for sunny day blasts. No time or need for for Volvos in my life...

 

https://cimg4.ibsrv.net/gimg/********.com-vbulletin/725x325/80-80_linux_vs_pc_mac_8055ffdd4b872fbc6de5dabbfc0f0f88720d4a4f_9b5ba65db2e7cdf494db17498d572d3cbd2806e8.jpg

LOL

 

https://cimg4.ibsrv.net/gimg/********.com-vbulletin/725x325/80-80_linux_vs_pc_mac_8055ffdd4b872fbc6de5dabbfc0f0f88720d4a4f_9b5ba65db2e7cdf494db17498d572d3cbd2806e8.jpg

:hilarious: