[MidEngine-Fan]

Re: The Worst Review of any Porsche I've read

Yesterday I went by my Porsche dealership and looked at a 981 Black Edition. The salesman worked up some numbers and I decided to trade. I'm picking it up today.

I had trouble sleeping last night because I wasn't sure that I was doing the right thing. Should I get this car? Maybe I should wait and get a 718??? But the 981 Black Edition sorta' cool. It is a flat-six and one of the last flat-sixes to come off the line. But a flat-four turbo might be cool. After reading that I think I made the right decision.

I sincerely hope that the 718 succeeds. I'm not against it. I guess I am just not 100% for it right now. Maybe I will look at one three or four years down the road. :cheers:

I'm hoping for a full report on the new 981 so I can enjoy it vicariously.


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[MidEngine-Fan]

Re: The Worst Review of any Porsche I've read

Back to cars, what's the next GT4? A 718 with a 6? A 4?? Or is there nothing in the future?


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[MidEngine-Fan]

Re: The Worst Review of any Porsche I've read

In simplest terms, naturally aspirated engines deliver power on demand. That is to say, when your foot depresses the accelerator, the engine responds with a corresponding amount of power. Depress it a little, get a little power. Depress it a lot, get a lot of power. And the power delivery is comparatively immediate and constant. Likewise, when you lift off the accelerator, power delivery is immediately cut.
.

This put a smile on my face, because in my 914 1.7, DD for years, more throttle didn't deliver more power, only more noise! But it does have great compression braking, lacking emissions controls that throw in air when you lift. You guys, and I now, have it too good.


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[MidEngine-Fan]

Re: The Worst Review of any Porsche I've read

All this to and fro has me wondering what comes after the 718. The future isn't now, Shannon, the future is the future. The present is now. 981 is the past, just as my 70 HP 914 was the past in the late 70s. Maybe the move to 4 FI helps meet a meaningless government test. If so, what's the next wrinkle in the test? Or maybe the move is to get folks to buy a 911 instead. If so, what's the next move? An Elise is light, but not Porsche-luxy. Electric? Can they make a good one at a good price?? Any chance the regs will soften?


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[MidEngine-Fan]

Re: The Worst Review of any Porsche I've read

All this to and fro has me wondering what comes after the 718. The future isn't now, Shannon, the future is the future. The present is now. 981 is the past, just as my 70 HP 914 was the past in the late 70s. Maybe the move to 4 FI helps meet a meaningless government test. If so, what's the next wrinkle in the test? Or maybe the move is to get folks to buy a 911 instead. If so, what's the next move? An Elise is light, but not Porsche-luxy. Electric? Can they make a good one at a good price?? Any chance the regs will soften?


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Koturban wrote that I asserted that Porsche was trying to build a car folks don't want to buy. Not my intention. I've followed all the reviews and I think they want to make the car attractive, despite the differences in sound, lag, etc. I like the hybrid hypothesis, and think the 718 is preparing the market for an even quieter car that's faster. I can imagine the reviews.


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[MidEngine-Fan]

Maybe Americans are waiting for the election results to decide between Boxster and Cayman, PDK or MT, pure steering wheel vs buttons?

 

[MidEngine-Fan]

If Porsche kills off the 718, it will become a sought-rarity. Or, in 3 years, when the only offerings are hybrids, the 718 owners will bemoan the loss of that IC purity, and will roundly disparage the hybrid new Gmuund, as Porsche will name it.

 

[MidEngine-Fan]

I'm somewhat more bullish on their hypothetical future hybrids. They already have some hybrid experience on the Panamera and 918, and I haven't heard of anything horribly disastrous going wrong with those (well, other than the decision to put the 918's fuel filler right next to its exhaust manifold, I guess). In terms of marketing to purists, even the die-hard 911 grognards have to admit that the very first Porsche was a hybrid, over 100 years ago and 60 years before the first 911 rolled off the line.

The marketing people will be able to milk that cow for all she's worth, and I think the engineers will be able to walk the talk.

IMO, it all depends on progress on batteries, or the lack. But I would bet $ that many folks who own 718s will roundly criticize it when the only mid-engine Porsche you can buy is a hybrid.

 

[MidEngine-Fan]

I love the ACC on my 981BS, and dearly wish for the blind spot facility. Also love that 6 cyl smoothness and sound. Wish I had car play. The true fact is that a trade in to a 718 would cost money. Not worth it to me. But if I were buying my first one, it's a different story. I would pay extra over a used 981 for the safety features, and live with the lack of cylinders. Maybe everyone will agree that it would have been preferable to have a 6 cyl option for the 718.

 

[MidEngine-Fan]

If you don't understand the point, then you don't get it.

If this is what he likes, worrying about maps, then that's great for whoever buys those cars. But in the same breath, don't berate the people who can't stand the fact they lost two cylinders and who care about it being a "sports car" and not an appliance. It works both ways.

If you want to sell people, sell them on the technical aspects of what makes a sports car a sports car. Don't try to sell them on songs on a PCM and blind spot indicators. Really? Blind spot indicators on a two seat sports car? When did this happen? What's next automatic cruise control? Having the car brake for you? Having it warn you when you are drifting lanes? Its a "sports car" ... or mabe its not. Maybe its something else and that is why sales are sagging? Hmm. Maybe that's on to something. Maybe they don't build sports cars anymore. Maybe its just a short Macan?

I want them to sell cars, to make money, to be successful. You don't sell cars to sports car buyers by talking about maps, songs, and turn indicators. Those are for washing machines. "Traditionally", sports car buyers care about the how the engine sounds, how it feels, how it handles, what it feels like at 9/10s ... and how you feel about it when you are done driving. Do you want to or ache to go back out ... right now ... immediately, and another spin around the block. How it makes you feel inside. Its about being one with the machine, feeling the shift lever click into place, knowing when the clutch engages, feel the power unwind, when to brake, when to shift, when to downshift and listening to the music behind you, listening to the mechanical sounds of the boxer engine.

Do you look back when you park your car and smile? Do you steal a glance in the garage or driveway? Or is a washing machine that holds maps? And that's OK if it is. We ALL need washing machines. There is NOTHING wrong with that. So if you don't get it, you don't get it. I own lots of washing machines, and always will. They have a place. But not in a sports car. A sports car should make you smile inside and out every time you think about it. And if it does that for 718 buyers - great. Sales will rise. If it doesn't, don't dump on the 987/981 owners because they will have something 718 owners will never have. Life is a two way street.

And this is why maybe, just maybe, they aren't making sports cars any more buy luxury washing machines. Hmm. Different set of buyers. I guess sales will tell the tale.

I think you have a Cayman, not a Boxster. Top up, a Boxster really needs the blind spot warning. Or maybe you only drive on two-lane roads. Yes, you can angle the mirrors out, but still, on a rainy night, busy freeway, sudden need to avoid an obstacle...

Different story on the 914, which has great visibility.

 

[MidEngine-Fan]

What no one has discussed yet ...

Wait until the turbos go, and they will go soon or later.

I hope the 718 buyers have DEEP pockets :helpme:

This won't be Subaru money to fix. It will be Porsche money to fix.

No, no, German engineering (tm), Porsches never break! At least my 914/4 has been reliable. My 986, on the other hand, leaked oil into coolant, in addition to needing AOS, alternator, water pump, door locks, coolant bottle, expensive brake job, pricey clutch, shocks, etc. But I had it for 90000 miles. It was fine for 30,000.

Porsches are great--just not cheap. Just two data points.

 

[MidEngine-Fan]

It's a sports car. People turn it into a luxury car by ordering grossly overpriced options like leather wrapped speedometer needles and mahogany brake calipers.

What?! How did I miss those in the configurator? And I thought leather vent slats were cool...

 

[MidEngine-Fan]

If that is true, then its up quite a bit. The last time PAG or PCNA said anything about that maybe 5 years ago was >$400K but $650 makes sense.

I think sometimes the box/cay buyers have no idea as to how much money the 911 buyers spend or have. We all live in our own world and can complain about the cost of service or the high costs of options. OTH, the truly rich just don't care. They special order $220K cars and walk. Some don't care about credit. They need no credit. They literally change cars because they don't like the color.

I might search for a coupon to get a few dollars off a meal. Meanwhile, the wealthy flip cars like pancakes.

Guess I should buy a 911--then I would be rich, too!

 

[MidEngine-Fan]

Btw, that high 911 median income figure explains how Porsche can charge what it does for matching luggage.

 

[MidEngine-Fan]

Are you saying the "rule makers" made the gasoline shortage of the 1970's rather then OPEC's embargo or forced the insurance companies to raise rates on muscle cars? Did anyone who had to face voters make those decisions?

I was surprised recently when I read in Milton Friedman's book that the US prevented gas prices from rising and so turned a price hike into a shortage, with lines, etc. Decide for yourself.

 

[MidEngine-Fan]

THIS is a sports car person Commuting In An Old Aircooled Porsche - The Drive

"Despite the fact that it was about 30 degrees this morning and the 912 doesn't have heat. ... Despite the fact that the driver's seat is one of the least comfortable places to be for long periods of time .... Despite the fact that the headlights are awful, the stereo barely works, and the muffler has a loose baffle .... I chose it and will continue to choose it whenever I can."

I wonder how many new buyers would make that choice? Sports cars are a lifestyle choice and you put up with the bad for a reason, Its the entire package that matters. And I left out this part ...

I never would have thought that a car that ambles from 0-60 in just over 13 seconds could be this fun and exciting to drive.

Think about that 0 - 60 in 13 secs.

Just like my 914!

 

[MidEngine-Fan]

The 912E had left over 914 2.0 engines when the 914 was discontinued. There were subtle differences from what was also used in the VW bus, from what I can remember. I know the distributor had a different rotor, for example.


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I wish I had the 2.0! And I wish I could disable the start/stop, well really just stop, that turns on whenever the engine is partly warm. I got good at heel-and-toe at traffic lights. Bosch electronic FI from '71. You young'uns don't know how good you have it.


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[MidEngine-Fan]

I had two 914s with 2.0L (at the same time) and neither one ever exhibited that problem. I did have infamous "vapor lock" problem on one of them when it got hot.


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Maybe yours had carburetors? Mine has the Bosch "Electronic" (i.e. Analog computer, pressure-sensor-based) fuel injection. I used to tinker with it a bunch, but finally just resorted to heel-and-toe. The idle just drops too low at part-warm. Don't have vapor-lock, though. Other than that, it's a reliable engine.

 

[MidEngine-Fan]

The 912E had left over 914 2.0 engines when the 914 was discontinued. There were subtle differences from what was also used in the VW bus, from what I can remember. I know the distributor had a different rotor, for example.


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I think the VW engines in the 914 had magnesium somewhere the bus or squareback didn't.

 

[MidEngine-Fan]

OK, how about IEEE ... If Germany Bans Internal Combustion Engines, It'll Change the Game - IEEE Spectrum Its all over the internet.

Yes, its done. Yes, its a resolution but the handwriting is on the wall. Its coming whether anyone here likes it or not - in the EU first.

You don't have to like it but to bury your head in the sand, well that's just like the Muscle Car guys who buried their heads in the sand in 1970 or so ... Just read the Annual Report. There is a reason E-Mission takes up much of the report and the billions going into building it.

Done deal.

The IEEE has members who would benefit from electric cars.


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