[Bonzai30]

Yes Porsche sets all their cars for understeer but beyond just suspension settings he needs to learn controls positioning, brake, clutch, shifter feel, weight balance, tire grip, aero feel and various and other sundry things, he needs to learn the complete package before he starts modifying that package and I would suggest in both dry and wet conditions.

I understand so called Internet experts have their tuning suggestions but he needs seat time more than anything at this point.

I agreed entirely with your point about more seat time, as you can see from my original post, and I am not suggesting that owners go out and immediately change sway bar settings upon delivery. However, as you know, many people come to Planet 9 for advice on tuning their cars, particularly for track purposes, whether it's to save tires through camber settings, or to change the handling characteristics to suit their personal preferences. As a track focused car, the GT4 in particular was designed for customers to be able to adjust the suspension and camber, which is a very good thing. I therefore think it's beneficial, not harmful, to the Planet 9 readers to share advice on various suspension settings and their impact, as long as the advice is from a credible source.

I personally view Chris Harris as a very skilled driver with an enormous amount of seat time. He regularly drives a whole range of new, very high performance cars and has personally owned many of them, including a GT3 RS 4.0. More importantly, he is able to drift these cars really well with very little seat time, which means he has a very good feel for the balance of various cars. In addition, the day he was testing the GT4, he was doing so with the advice and support of the Porsche Motorsports team, as illustrated by his long and very informative interview with Andreas Preuninger, who gives advice during the interview on GT4 suspension design and how to adjust the suspension. I therefore don't think that Chris Harris' advice on how to dial out the understeer comes from an uninformed source and believe it has value to readers. In other words, I think it's helpful to encourage, not discourage the sharing of this sort of suspension tuning advice on the site, as long as it's from a reputable source, which I believe it was in this instance.

 

[Ochocoronas]

Here is my personal view and opinion. I got the GT4 for the fun. I also drive on track for the fun. I have never ever timed myself nor do I intend to set lap times nor do I try to be faster than other drivers. If people want to pass me, I move over. I happily finish "last"

I totally agree with everything you are saying...FUN-FUN-FUN :drivingskid: Just my past experience is once over 125 MPH ( 201.17 KM ) its not long before all the under steer, over steer, aero, braking, feel, ECT. become apparent really quick. As much feedback as the GT4 apparently gives it will be even more noticeable. I am thinking before long you will be making some minor adjustments just to see how it feels.

 

[PG-IN]

I love the diary and I love the car! Seeing your car has inspired me to do the black side stripe. I wasn't sure if I would like it or not but it looks GREAT. And the photos! Wow! You are one lucky man I must say. The US has some beautiful country for sure but Europe has some amazing photo ops on some gorgeous roads. I hope one day to make it over to experience the scenery and roads in person.

Would you by chance have the photos in higher resolution and would you feel comfortable sharing? I would LOVE to use some of these for wallpaper! 1920x1080 or larger would be awesome!

 

[Alpha.GT4]

You both made very good points.

Ken's advice applies to a good chunk of people around the Internet community, myself included, who really have driving skills that are far below the limits of these cars. Often times people talk about adjusting/modifying a car before even really knowing the what the car's handling characteristics are towards the limit. Far too many people think they know a car well simply from reading forums and watching a few videos -- some from very experienced drivers, some from vendors who have vested interest in making every driver out there to believe their product would make the car superior, or some from people who just don't know what the heck is going on.

I can't even list out how many (as there are far too many) people who I have spoken to who think slapping on coilovers and lowering the car would mean better handling. They would argue "lower center of gravity" and "less body roll" would automatically equate to faster lap times. They think I'm idiot when I say stock cars often times are hard to beat unless lots of time's spent on tuning. In some ways Porsche AG is making an assumption that GT-car customers have some knowledge of simple suspension tuning, or would simply revert to factory recommended settings. Their cars are always tuned slightly more conservatively for an average driver. Granted, the audience Porsche AG assumed for GT-cars probably is already at a different level than say what they assumed for a Boxster base model. But the engineers can't expect everyone to be a Chris Harris either. For me, I gladly admit I'm probably not even close to the average level Porsche AG was pricing in.

Then Bonzai you were referring to Chris Harris, who clearly is a better driver than most. His comments most likely relate more to his own personal taste and could potentially be closer to what other very experienced drivers feel. Of course, for those people, maybe yourself included, would be able to better utilize that adjustability due to the higher level of driver skill. There is no way to quantify and draw the line when the skill level exceeds the base case scenario that Porsche AG has set, but generally speaking those in instructor groups or well into advanced groups would be more suitable to even take a stab at it.

Just my 3 minutes of rambling

I agreed entirely with your point about more seat time, as you can see from my original post, and I am not suggesting that owners go out and immediately change sway bar settings upon delivery. However, as you know, many people come to Planet 9 for advice on tuning their cars, particularly for track purposes, whether it's to save tires through camber settings, or to change the handling characteristics to suit their personal preferences. As a track focused car, the GT4 in particular was designed for customers to be able to adjust the suspension and camber, which is a very good thing. I therefore think it's beneficial, not harmful, to the Planet 9 readers to share advice on various suspension settings and their impact, as long as the advice is from a credible source.

I personally view Chris Harris as a very skilled driver with an enormous amount of seat time. He regularly drives a whole range of new, very high performance cars and has personally owned many of them, including a GT3 RS 4.0. More importantly, he is able to drift these cars really well with very little seat time, which means he has a very good feel for the balance of various cars. In addition, the day he was testing the GT4, he was doing so with the advice and support of the Porsche Motorsports team, as illustrated by his long and very informative interview with Andreas Preuninger, who gives advice during the interview on GT4 suspension design and how to adjust the suspension. I therefore don't think that Chris Harris' advice on how to dial out the understeer comes from an uninformed source and believe it has value to readers. In other words, I think it's helpful to encourage, not discourage the sharing of this sort of suspension tuning advice on the site, as long as it's from a reputable source, which I believe it was in this instance.

 

[Westcoaster]

These are the million dollar questions which I believe many people are asking themselves now. The same questions which have been asked about the GT3 versus Carrera for the past 15 years.

The GT4 is not rough and unsettled, it is however hard. Very hard. Not only from the dampers, but also from the roll-bars. These make a huge difference in road compliance and comfort. Now, where hard turns to harsh depends very much on the roads where you drive. I am blessed with excellent roads in Switzerland which are flat, even and pothole free. Of track quality, if you like. I could imagine that the GT4 becomes harsh as soon as the road surface gets more interesting

The car does however ask for... no sorry, it demands your focus and concentration. I think this is due to the much stronger sensory feedback than in the non-GT cars. You simply feel every little change in the road surface, the direction of the wheels, the engine vibration, the noise, etc. It is always there and you cannot shut it off. Hence, depending on how tolerant you are, this could all become very tiresome on longer trips. The car is built like that, rubber bushings and sound deadening are gone. It is what everyone are raving about in the reviews, it is what will annoy you after a 3 hour trip

The longest trip I did was 3 hours, but with a pause half-way through. You do feel a bit tired and stiff, and that is coming from someone who is very tolerant. My 991 C4S is on a different scale when it comes to comfort. It is as fast as the GT4 too. It is however no where near as sharp and direct.

I don't think there is a difference in the luggage space between the GT4 and the other Caymans. The rear boot appears smaller than my previous 987 Boxster, but it is a comparison from memory. Not side by side.

Road noise is not bad, but it is there. Like all other noises. Part of the sharper-and-more-direct package.



It is really hard to give advice, since it is very subjective and individual. Nor is there a "right" or "wrong" with the choice. I can just say that the GT4 is special and it requires special attention, all the time. The GTS is for sure more forgiving and much more broad in it's usability. If I did not have the luxury of owning the 991 C4S too, then I would have thought twice about the GT4 as the "only" sports car in the garage.

Excellent feedback about the chassis, suspension and car overall, I had my suspicions that the car would have this kind of character, not unlivable but certainly more 'purpose built'.

I think it is all too easy to be wooed by the more is better syndrome, more HP bigger brakes, sway bars and stiffer springs, etc, all great if you intent is to draw out the last measures of performance, but certainly not required for the street.

We are fortunate that there is a car like this available, but also that the other models exist as well, for me I find that I value the ability to dial in a more compliant ride with PASM, enjoy some quiet with PSE and sit in the left seat for as much as 8 hours at a stretch during those long road trips, yet when asked an S or GTS dialed up to Sport+ and with PSE is better then a lot of car on the street today and certainly would not disappoint.

Keep the story coming Persy, it has been a great read!

 

[Persy]

Would you by chance have the photos in higher resolution and would you feel comfortable sharing? I would LOVE to use some of these for wallpaper! 1920x1080 or larger would be awesome!

Thank you! :cheers:

I have no issue sharing the photos. Higher resolution (2048px) are uploaded to my Flickr profile. You should be able to download them from there: https://www.flickr.com/photos/permagnusson

Let me know if it does not work.

 

[Persy]

Delivery

On May 8, 2015, in the afternoon I picked up the GT4. It was the first time I saw the car with the side decals on and they looked just right! The sales advisor told me he had now ordered the same side decals for his upcoming Spyder

Overall I had a great experience with the Porsche centre in Zug. Most helpful, professional and personal. Everything worked out according to plan.

…and off we went!

 

[chows4us]

Persy, excellent photography.

Question 1. With SPASM on your C4S, do you scrape the front lip on driveways, up or down?

2. On the same inclines, are you scraping with the GT4 front lip?

3. What is the distance from the ground to the bottom of the front lip on the GT4?

 

[Persy]

Persy, excellent photography.

Thank you! :cheers:

1. With SPASM on your C4S, do you scrape the front lip on driveways, up or down?

No, I never had an issue on driveways or parking garages. My previous 997.2 with -20mm SPASM and normal front facia did scrape more. I believe the overhang on the 991 is shorter and hence less prone to scrape.

2. On the same inclines, are you scraping with the GT4 front lip?

Yes, the GT4 is scraping. The lip does look a lot lower than the 991 with Sport Design facia and without lift system I am trying to avoid parking garages as much as possible. Even so I have scraped at a few drive ways and speed bumps. Nothing serious, but there is not much margin left. Hence this car is not advisable as a daily driver, unless you can completely avoid such situations.

3. What is the distance from the ground to the bottom of the front lip on the GT4?

11 cm

 

[chows4us]

No, I never had an issue on driveways or parking garages. ... Yes, the GT4 is scraping. ... this car is not advisable as a daily driver, unless you can completely avoid such situations. 11 cm

Thank you

I find I scrape all the time with a C2S w/SPASM I wonder if they AWD makes a difference. In any case, the GT4 approach angle is 6 degrees. The overhang is important.

Just wanted to see what someone had to say in reality. So far, there a lot of discussion but actually living with it for a DD driver can get old. I know that I am alway cautious as having to always remember to take some driveways at an angle. I know the front lips are consumables and are not really expensive to replace. It's the aggravation of buying and installing the part that matters.

thanks!

 

[GTAutoDesign]

I know that for street use(which will be 80% of the year) I will be purchasing the Spyder's front splitter which may help with the issue you are having with the scraping

 

[PistolPete]

Great photos Persy. Just started following you on Flickr. I see you're a Nikon person too...

 

[IL R]

Quote:
What is the distance from the ground to the bottom of the front lip on the GT4?
11 cm

I am crazy in love with the GT4.
11 cm. Wow that is low. My Cayman R which was lowered 2 cm from the normal 987.2 still has a distance of 17.25 cm to its front lip and even though I have never scrapped it I still have to be very careful. I believe the 11 cm clearance has a lot to do with the higher top speed capability of the GT4 to prevent lift.

Question:
How do you like the steering feel of the GT4 in comparison to your previous 987 boxster? Chris Harris on the GT4 video seems to say good things about the GT4 steering then he goes on to comment that is is not as riggity? as the older Porsche, but what do you expect. These days things don't do that. I am confused by what Chris Harris said. Not sure if riggity? is good or bad. Perhaps you can clarify.
Thanks

 

[K-Man S]

Woot the GT4 would give me MORE clearance! I've been a shade over 10cm for years and it hasn't bothered me a bit...

(corrected mm to cm) Looks like ruler doesn't start flush either so I may be at or below 10cm actually... No idea what my approach angle is... since I can fly over Elk, I'm not really worried about it...

 

[Croc'ed]

It's not just vertical distance, but the approach angle that determines the likelihood of scraping. This angle is calculated as the inverse tangent of the ratio of the vertical clearance to the horizontal distance from it to the point where the front tire touches the ground. Or, you can simply look it up in the specifications.[emoji6]

 

[IL R]

Quote: Woot the GT4 would give me MORE clearance! I've been a shade over 10mm for years and it hasn't bothered me a bit...
Is that an aftermarket flexible spoiler molded out of black plastic or rubber? If yes what is the brand?
Thanks

 

[Tass]

Woot the GT4 would give me MORE clearance! I've been a shade over 10mm for years and it hasn't bothered me a bit...

10 mm is just over 3/8" , I assume that you mean that you have over 10 cm.... (damn metric system )

 

[Persy]

How do you like the steering feel of the GT4 in comparison to your previous 987 boxster? Chris Harris on the GT4 video seems to say good things about the GT4 steering then he goes on to comment that is is not as riggity? as the older Porsche, but what do you expect. These days things don't do that. I am confused by what Chris Harris said. Not sure if riggity? is good or bad. Perhaps you can clarify.
Thanks

The GT4's steering is brilliant! I had the suspension on my previous 987 (H&R shocks and roll-bars) rebuilt and realigned by a race shop. This completely change the feel in the 987, very similar to a 997 GT3 feel, and the GT4 feels exactly like this. It is a bit lighter than my 991 C4S, which I guess could be due to the all-wheel drive in the C4S, but the preciseness, sharpness and feedback in the GT4 is simply excellent! The C4S feels very muted and almost artificial in comparison.

I don't get what Harris Monkey says about riggity. I would not pay too much attention to this detail IMHO the steering is excellent!

 

[Persy]

Woot the GT4 would give me MORE clearance! I've been a shade over 10mm for years and it hasn't bothered me a bit...

There you go! Did you ever go down a steep parking garage? I never dared...

Mine is exactly 10.8cm which I think is 1mm higher than spec. Of course, the air pressure in the tires, the petrol in the tank, etc. makes a difference so it seems to be more or less spot on.

 

[Persy]

GT3 and GT4

On May 10, 2015, I went for a drive with a good friend who own’s a 991 GT3. A truly beautiful day for a drive! We stopped at a few places to take photos: