Mechanically, I doubt it makes a lick of difference to the transmission.

 

My guess is other than trying to come up with a believable explanation for the funny callouses you've developed on your right hand, nothing -
you're pretty safe except for all the snide comments and innuendo abut the source of the shift callouses - see, e.g.

Proof that the 2014 Porsche 911 Turbo S is unbreakable - YouTube

 

am i :crazy: to worry about this
fred from nashville

^ This

Yes you are nuts to worry about it


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

Maybe take it easy till the PDKs oil warms up a little? Just a WAG. On my 2014 the computer rev-matches so I figure there's not much wear on the PDK.

 

When you switch to manual mode there is a tiny triangle warning that tells you to upshift instead of staying in gear.

i don't think you are hurting the PDK any more than driving crazy in auto mode. I don't like the PDK shifting to 2nd or 1st gear and 7 rpm when flooring it, so think I may be actually saving the PDK by manually shifting and keeping rpms in the 3-6 range. If you are going to go around in 7 rpms and 1-2 gear...yea good luck with the PDK holding up.

manual says follow the below rules

1) no high rpm, low gear, high speed
2) no low rpm, high gear, low speed

 

Usually the PDF is shifting more than you would doing it yourself because PDK is trying to keep rpms low for gas mileage.

When you switch to manual mode there is a tiny triangle warning that tells you to upshift instead of staying in gear.

i don't think you are hurting the PDK any more than driving crazy in auto mode. I don't like the PDK shifting to 2nd or 1st gear and 7 rpm when flooring it, so think I may be actually saving the PDK by manually shifting and keeping rpms in the 3-6 range. If you are going to go around in 7 rpms and 1-2 gear...yea good luck with the PDK holding up.

I think you are overly concerned with hurting your car.

 

The PDK has been used by Porsche for a long time in cars with more horsepower than a Cayman. It was originally developed for racing. I hammered my PDK around Sebring yesterday for two hours and it never skipped a beat. PDK is an awesome piece of technology.

 

The PDK has been used by Porsche for a long time in cars with more horsepower than a Cayman. It was originally developed for racing.

Racing equipment has awful reliability. A Formula One transmission, for example, can only survive five events.

 

do you think it is designed to take pretty constant shifting and maybe a little abuse.

No, it's not designed for constant shifting. It has clutches that wear out.
In a manual car you can easily replace the clutch. The automatic transmission in your Porsche is not fixable. You'll have to buy a refurbished one for $15,000.

 

Has anyone ever reported wearout of clutches in a street-driven PDK?

 

The Getrag DCT used in BMW M cars cost around $9-10k in 2011.

Dual clutch transmissions are often pre-selecting the next highest or lowest clear on the second clutch when you are driving around. Even if you stay in the same gear, the computer tries to guess which gear you want next. So say you are in second gear. As you gain and lose speed, the computer may choose to pre-select first or third gear in anticipation. Not as much wear as doing a full gear change granted, but it's not like these transmissions are designed to stay static!

To make these transmissions last, you have to make sure to change the fluid at the gearbox manufacturer's recommended interval. Not sure these PDK transmissions are old enough to determine how they will hold up long term (i.e. > 100k miles).

 

It's selected, but not engaged. The next higher or lower gear is in freewheel, or already spun up to speed match with the car or engine speed. That has to be a lot less wear and stress than the actual gear change.

Also each clutch only handles specific gears. 1,3,5,7 and 2,4,6. I'll admit i've done a lot of staring at the pdk diagram of how it works, but that's just a static pic of a green arrow.

I've see quite a few near 100k or over 09+ carrera's and a handful of Boxsters listed for sale, not sure how they run though


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

I used to use the shift lever on my Lexus sometimes and the lever broke. It just dangled when going left to right. Cost $700 to replace.

 

I don't have a PDK and I am wondering if there is a recommended service interval for fluid changes in it?

 

The Porsche Maintenance Booklet (available here), doesn't explicitly mention PDK, but specifies 120,000 miles or 12 years for the following:

Manual transmission: Change oil
Automatic transmission: Change ATF and ATF filter
Automatic transmission: Change oil in final drive
Four-wheel final drive: Change oil
​

 

Subaru replaced the wiper blades on my Forester multiple times over the course of the 3 year 36,000 mile bumper to bumper warranty

 

Warranty will cover if your PDK died within 4 years 50k. They will have no way to prove it was from excessive wear.

 

I think there is a wind-up merchant in our midst...


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

"This is a bad comparison. I have ridden road bikes for 30+ years, mountain bike for 15+years ... what you have said is simply not true. Put a pro sprinter on your so-called sturdy utilitarian bike and he could snap the cranks right away. Following your logic, a Walmart mountain bike can take a 10 feet drop better than any of the pro-level bikes; and that, my friend, is eye "

The statement was that Porsche racing equipment isn't built for reliability, and that's frankly absurd.

 

 

PDK Failures are exceeding rare. They are very robust transmissions. I've seen only 3 failures reported on various forums since 2009. All of them were electronics issues. I've never seen a clutch failure reported. Porsche does not service PDK units. Replacement with a new unit is just north of $13,000 (as reported by a 997 owner this past spring).

 

Attempting to bring this back to the topic:

If you are driving it normal, changing gears when you're supposed to, whether you or the computer shifting the gears shouldn't make a difference?

Unless you were changing gears for the sake of changing gears, dumping it from 6th to 4th to attack a bend at high RPMs, then yes, I imagine even a manual transmission won't like the abuse.

 

If you are driving it normal, changing gears when you're supposed to, whether you or the computer shifting the gears shouldn't make a difference?

I agree wholeheartedly - it shouldn't make a lick of difference - the system won't let you do anything outside its programmed parameters no matter how stupid you get. The only extra stress you're introducing into the system is that you might wear the finish off the shift buttons. :hilarious:

Unless you were changing gears for the sake of changing gears, dumping it from 6th to 4th to attack a bend at high RPMs, then yes, I imagine even a manual transmission won't like the abuse.

Even then, I doubt you could be more demanding than the computer. If you're cruising along at 50mph in 6th or 7th and mat the gas pedal, the system will immediately drop you straight down to 2nd, even more rapidly and violently than you could have achieved manually.

 

Jay cuts open a PDK

 

In the '50s, it was common knowledge amongst car mechanics that automatic transmissions were far less reliable than most manuals. In contrast, some modern-day torque converter transmissions appear to potentially be quite stable. (E.g., on the E90 section of bimmer.com, with surprising consistency, people have reported very high mileage cars that still have had no automatic transmission problems.)

Even so, anecdotes that have been reported on the internet tell us very little without a denominator--X number of problems out of how many cars (and how many miles)? Without those data, we know very little (except, of course, that problems can occur). I believe both TrueDelta and Consumer Reports do not separate manual vs. automatic transmission problems. One might say that such a high percentage of cars have automatics (even Porsches), that a "bad" record (e.g., in the 2014 Cayman data from TrueDelta) or a "good" record (e.g., all other years TrueDelta reports regarding Cayman transmission problems) are likely to be talking about PDK. But data can be tricky, and it's not impossible that a particularly terrific or awful reliability record of manuals can skew the data enough to somewhat mislead us.

Anybody out there have more than anecdotes to help us assess how reliable double clutch automatics are, either in general (or, better yet), PDK in particular?

 

Anybody out there have more than anecdotes to help us assess how reliable double clutch automatics are, either in general (or, better yet, PDK in particular)?

You will never get the data from PAG. Not going to happen.

Anecdotal information is, of course, all over the internet. However, the vast majority of people never read a single forum, never mind post in one, nor could they care less about true delta or whatever the latest fad is to collect data.

PDK arrived in 2009. Its been five years. The initial cars are now out of warranty. IF someone had an issue, and IF they were active on a pcar forum, you can take it to the bank they would be complaining endlessly (people who have issues tend to complain). For example, when someone had to get new PCCB rotors because of PTV, they complained in MULTIPLE pcar forums about dropping $10K for rotors, not that it does any good but makes them feel better.

A new PDK is a min $15K plus labor. There will be wailing louder than a GT3RS with open headers.

At this point, we can only conclude that there are no "reported in forums" PDK failures out of warranty (unless you can find one)

edit, I found one failure out of warranty 911uk.com - Porsche Forum, Specialist, Insurance, Car For Sale, Finance, Parts & Service : View topic - PDK low speed judder when warm Don't understand the UK references of if PAG kicked in.

PDK failed out of warranty but replaced under extended warranty http://www.6speedonline.com/forums/997/349004-997-pdk-issues.html#post4212124

 

Nice a referenced thread with no ending that is over a year old. I commend you. Otherwise for us PDK owners it appears the 1 out of warranty failure is also the last episode of the Sopranos.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

Nice a referenced thread with no ending that is over a year old. I commend you.

You said in reference to a $15K replacement cost: I doubt this seriously. It's a $3200 option now,

Your prices are way out of line. The price for a new PDK

transmission for a 2012 Cayman, as an example, is $15,492. Add labor to that.

I suggest you do some due diligence and find references to failed PDK units to give back to the community.

 

Well knowing how the PDK works, I think there is plenty to break, but if you don't go crazy and abuse it, it will last as long as the engine.

i have 150k on a VW gold TDI with DSG, VW's automated manual dual clutch transmission. It has always been the weak link in the system. I've had a few issues with it and overall driving the I can feel the way the DSG is slowly degrading and not as smooth as it used to be. But hey, it still runs great as a 2011 model with more than 35k miles per year.

Manual is going to be more reliable of course.

 

I'll be sure to update when I have mine replaced for the same reasons he did


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

When I look at those cutaways of PDKs, I can't understand how they get the oil pressure to those clutches to operate them and how the seals involved could be very durable. But there's a lot I don't understand that works.

 

Here's another: do PDKs use synchros like MTs, and does the rev-matching work closed-loop? If the computer gooses the throttle for a downshift and the engine misfires will it still try to engage the gear?? I'm probably thinking about this wrong, but I'd love more answers, and could actually be on topic.

 

one thing i did do when i got my 2009 basic cayman from carmax is get the very expensive warranty that DOES cover the tranny. i only worry myself when i bang it from first into second while punching it. aside from that, its just so fun and comfy shifting thru the gears or holding it at rpmes i think are good and fun for the engine.
fred from nashville