I am a Cayman guy. The Cayman fits me like a glove. I had a 981 series base Cayman and now I have a 718 Cayman S. They are both great cars. I am loving the mid-range torque of the 718 Cayman S. It is so usable on the road, and the power delivery is "right now."

The flat six howls. The turbo four growls.

I am delighted to see that Porsche is bringing back the flat six in the Cayman GT4 and Boxster Spyder. As much as I would love to own a Cayman with a flat six again, I am not really interested in the current configuration because:

1. I am nearly 70 years old and I will not be driving my car on the track. I do not want a fixed wing.
2. A 30 mm drop in the suspension is too low for the road. My 718 CS has a 10mm drop and I am always concerned about scraping the chin spoiler. A front axle lift system would fix the problem.
3. Since the new GT4 is a track car, I am concerned about a harsh ride. You can take a road car and drive it on the track, but you can't always take a track car and use it on the road.

My hope is that Porsche addresses these issues with a touring model. If that becomes a reality, sign me up! Chances are I would be willing to give up the "turbo rush" for that hair raising "wail" again. I miss it..

I won't know for sure until I get behind the wheel. So I will wait and see and enjoy the amazing 718 turbo four in the meantime.

 

Sailor:

I totally agree that the 718 Cayman is the right car. However, you have to quit worrying over the chin spoiler! SO WHAT if you scrape it? The lower front is impossible to see without putting the car on a lift. It's also a cheap replacement part that can be replaced with very little labor. It's flat black and unpainted for a reason.

I drove my '06 Cayman S for 10 years/100K. I tracked it. I drove it every winter. Put it through the car wash like a normal car and modded the bgezus out of it. When I traded it, it worked better than the day I bought it and was faster in a straight line and cornering. It used no oil and was rust-free. It had paint chips all over the front (nose is plastic and hood is aluminum, so no rust.) Yes, the underside of the nose had scrapes. I replaced it once myself. Because it it was silver, none of this showed enough to damage the looks of it on the street. I still got compliments on the car all the time.

If you're saving your car for maximum resale, forget about it. The world is a hostile place. If you're putting off enjoying the thing, just stop. These things are magic and they're built to last. That's why you pay a bit more for them.

As to why I'm not ordering a 718 GT4? It's because I like my 718 GTS too much! It's terrific. Oh, and the GT4 has huge rear tires that won't fit through my local car wash rails...and they won't let me in with a fixed wing for obvious reasons.

BTW, my GTS corners and goes better than my modded '06 ever did and is more comfortable. I traded a '19 Carrera T for it...and I'm thrilled to own a Cayman again.

Agree with Ken (K-man) that the extra weight is puzzling and disappointing. My guess is that a lot of this is in coolers and extra liquid coolant and oil to keep that big motor cool and reliable on long track-days.

:cheers:

 

Would be nice to confirm that the new engine spools up slower than the old one. Don't get me wrong, I am with you, slow engines are bad.

I understand the implications of bore vs. stroke, however there is so much new about this engine. Not that it is likely but there could be e.g. reduced inertia.

Have you seen that blog post where somebody bases the 991.2 engine (compared to 991.1) because it has a worse power/weight ratio and overall doesn't look nearly as "racing heritage" as the 991.1 engines?

 

Obviously I have no experience with the new 4.0L engine, but I do have a 991.2 GT3 MT with a 4.0L engine. I sold my GT4 when the GT3 came in. Compared to the 981 Spyder that I still own, I felt that the GT4 revved a bit quicker than the Spyder, which I attributed to the slightly different mapping. Now the Spyder revs up noticeably faster than the GT3 when double clutching to down shift.

Whether this has any significance for the new 4.0L I do not know but it is of interest.

williamr

 

I trust them to get the engine right, at least until reviews suggest otherwise. The GT3 engine was never on the table; it's too expensive by an amount that probably runs into five figures.

And they seem to have a good excuse for the weight gain, which is that the EU no longer allows the weight of the lightest option configuration to represent the model as a whole. Unless you checked a bunch of options like PCCB and radio and A/C delete, you didn't get a car that weighed what was advertised. I'm fine with this regulatory change and with Porsche's explanation of it.

But they are still playing stupid games with the marketplace, even at a time when the IC engine is entering its Gotterdammerung phase. No, I don't want a manual top that weighs 12 pounds less than the automatic top. No, I don't want a Rice-a-Roni Jabroni rear wing. I want a Boxster S with a NA flat six engine.

Oh, wait, I already have one of those. :dance: So: thanks but no thanks, Porsche.

Give me a call when you're ready to get serious.

 

The EU is killing Porsche and they apparently don't see it. Why don't they move manufacturing to TN or GA and build the car the way it should be built. Let them put a smaller engine in the Europeon model and ship it back to them. It's never going to get better with the EU from now on.

 

The weight gain is misleading. Previously Porsche would state the lowest weight based on options, not based on standard equipment. This comes from AP himself who said the apples to apples difference is about 30 kg (66 lbs) due to some equipment being standard now that wasn't before as well as the new exhaust filter.

 

Ken and I think the same.

The added weight is simply unacceptable. When you know standards will require a heavy particulate filter muffler, and you have 4+ YEARS to solve the problem, and do not - that is a HUGE FAIL in my opinion.

The note about adding a much heavier starter and heavier battery so that you can put an Auto On /Off system in a GT car is an even bigger FAIL.

No Front Axle Lift option, no lightweight deletes, no light weight glass, and no PDK offered up front are all fails.

And, that "Flying Nunn" rear wing - I'm still looking for a race car with similar, don't they know that it is not the downforce GT4 owners want, but to look like a race car! Dude, the clubsport wing would have be perfect, WTH?

Yes, I'm disappointed too Ken. I do think the car will run great as Porsches never excel on paper. They have however, proven through the years that they know how to put together a good package that works well in total.

And, a final thought, I do believe we are completely spoiled as 981 owners. It is the car that cost the least, and performed the best. Truly, it is hard to make a leap improvement from the 981 GT4. I was personally disappointed the PDK was not announced, although leaks show it coming late in 2020.

All in all, I decided not to wait for the 718 GT4 PDK, so I went out and bought a '14 981 Cayman S PDK. Wow, what a great car for the money. (I think I have said that 3 times prior!)

 

Just no would have sufficed....

 

Two words...
Mid-range
Torque.



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WRT to the non-limited run point - Porsche opened up their books after the demand for the 981 GT4 exceeded their expectations. I remember being told that I could still put my order in for one, 6 months after the "books had closed" (early 2017) and Chris Harris's youtube review of the GT4 with his stating that you couldn't get one even if you wanted one. So the 981 GT4 is not a rare beast, not even down here in Australia where a lot of flippers bought them and tried to shift them for years after the fact at over RRP ($220-230K AUD)- actually it is the 981 Spyder that is the rare one. Now that the 718 GT4 has been announced, resale values for the 981 GT4s have dropped $70K AUD to $150-170K AUD - quite a number of them with less than 10,000kms on the clock. There are currently 14 examples for sale on our popular online car classifieds site (Australia's population is 25 Million)

 

I am not ordering it because

- price is ridiculous
- Already have a Spyder
- 10 sec faster around the ring is nothing because the ring has been smoothed over a lot and and tire compounds have improved massively so not really a faster car as far as I can tell right now
- I don't like the side profile of the 718 especially the roof area. don't like the front lights. weirdly enough I like the rear.
- not a fan of petal wheels
- not any inspiring colors other than gentian blue
- weight increase
- can't comment on slower revving engine but my god if it's true then definitely a no because I barely can stand the current rate of revs which is why I am looking in to a lot of engine upgrades as soon as the warranty runs out. prob next year a bunch of headers, high flow cats, protune gonna go on there.

Why I would like to order one is as follows:
- euro delivery
- euro delivery
-euro delivery
- possible pdk

 

I've been asked by several people if I am ordering the new GT4 and the answer is simply No. I would just say No, but everyone wants reasons, so here are some of MY reason (don't have to apply to anyone else) and in no particular order.

I'm with K-Man S on this one. Having owned four Caymans to date, I had been looking forward to getting a 718 GT4, and was at the top of my local dealer's list to order one. But I was underwhelmed when the car was finally announced last week, for all the reasons on K-Man S's list.

So instead (and I can't believe I'm saying this as a diehard Cayman supporter for so many years) I spent the weekend shopping online for a 2014 or 2015 GT3. With the GT4's base price around $100,000, adding in the options I want it'll likely cost me $120,000 or so. I can get a similarly-equipped, low miles 2014-15 GT3 for the same money. Similar weight to the GT4, but with an extra 60 HP, a 9000 rev limit and an engine warranty through 2024. And probably less depreciation over an anticipated five years of use than a new, and newly non-exclusive, GT4. Sadly, this was an easy call.

So I'm selling my beloved, track-prepped Cayman R and trading up to a GT3, as soon as I find the right one. (I'm keeping my 718 GTS daily driver, though. Love that car, even though it does sound a bit like a pissed off Subaru!)

 

Good luck! Keep us posted on your purchase process! A GT3 would be phenomenal!

 

Well until we get both cars on a scale we won't really know, regardless I think they should have carved weight out, not added more in... aftermarket exhaust systems are quite a bit lighter, why couldn't Porsche do that?

 

Which is laughable at best.... :hilarious:


(In response to the mid range torque post, it didn't quote the post for some reason but honestly mid range torque in the GT4 is laughable, same for GT3 and most any other ICE car once you've driven an electric car you realize how buzzy and underpowered gas cars are, there are lots of reasons to love a GT4, the crisp handling and darty point and go nature of the car, the sublime balance, but mid range torque is not and never will be a reason to own a GT4)

 

Have to agree with you on torque in Porsches and European cars in general- they're weak. I looked at a Hellcat because I love power- but I wanted balance too, and the Porsche was better. But yes, European cars have no ***, as they say, compared to an American V8 muscle car.

 

The heavy and restrictive exhaust particulate filters are an EU requirement, not a US requirement. The new Speedster 911 model is sold in the US without the filters, but has it's ECU detuned to deliver the same power output as the EU filter equipped version.

What I'm getting at here, is will the GT4 be sold in the US without the filters? If so, then there's a nice chunk of weight already saved. Furthermore, could also allow for more power. Hopefully we can get more details on this as the production date gets closer.

 

If you already have a 981 GT4/Spyder then you have what you need... 'nuf said.

If you don't have one and can afford to build out a new 718 GT4/Spyder then this is a great time to be a mid-engine Porsche fan! :cheers:

 

When photos of the new engine, flywheel side, are available, I want to see it.

A GT4 PDK may be problematic. The 718 PDK dual mass flywheel sticks out an inch further from the dual clutch than the 9A1. This moved the hole for the crank position sensor. Why? My guess is the 718 4 cylinder engine creates stronger vibrations with two pulses per engine revolution vs three for a flat 6. I think they moved the flywheel further out from the transmission because of this.

The 4 cylinder block has a raised edge to act as the extra bellhousing. So you see a 1/2 to 3/4 inch raised area around the flywheel on the 4 cylinder block. If Porsche has to redesign the flywheel/bellhousing again, this could explain why there may not be (at least initially) a PDK 718 GT4. The question is does the 3L engine that the GT4 4L is supposedly derived have this lip on the block or not. If not, they may have to produce two versions of the PDK - one for the Turbo 4 qnd one for the GT4 flat six.


V6

 

Glad to oblige!

 

Thanks for the photo Weztcoaster.

Looks similar to the 9A1, so would take a 981-style PDK. Noticed the Aluminum plenum and plastic oil sump. End of crankshaft looks different, too.

V6

 

No worries, and this one with a better view of the intake, along with a quote from R&T:

In an email to Road & Track, Andreas Preuninger, head of GT cars at Porsche, said the engine also gets a new forged crankshaft and pistons, piezo fuel injectors, and an aluminum intake system. The engine is dry-sumped, too, with an a oil pump that's designed to prevent starvation in high-speed cornering. It makes 414 horsepower and 309 lb-ft of torque, with a redline set at 8000 rpm, and for now, the only transmission option is a six-speed manual.

 

Said about a million times and got ridiculed each time that Porsche was going to jack up the price more than people thought and the power less than people thought. It was not the ridicule—with which I am quite familiar—but the absolute certainty with which I was ridiculed that struck me. The speak-no-ill of Stuttgart mentality is a powerful thing.


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@Westcoaster...where did you find those engine images? They are reasonably high-res at 2500 by 1768, but would like even more pixels if they are available at the source.

 

Yes, they have much higher res at the following location, these were resized during upload of course! Other great images of these cars and all sorts of other Porsche things...

https://press.porsche.com/prod/pres.../WebResources?OpenView&level1id=1&hl=pcna-images-produkte&level1tab=1&formtab=2

 

I’m going to throw my two cents in here because I haven’t seen them discussed so far. “Why I’m not ordering a 718 Spyder (yet)”.

All of this is just personal preference, so please take it as such. Just my tastes FWIW.

The interior options are not as extensive as they were when I was ordering my 981 CGTS, and I can’t actually get what I want. I’m not a big Alcantara fan and I ordered my 981 with full leather for that reason. The only Alcantara is on the headliner and I think it is absolutely brilliant there. But you can’t get the seats without Alcantara on them, and so I can’t get the LWBS in full leather. I’ve got the 18-ways now, so the best I could do is have them swap my current seats in when the car arrives.

I’m also not a fan of the “sporty” vents and chrono surround. I’ve been thinking that they’ll grow on me but so far that hasn’t happened. In a car that is north of $100k I expect the interior detailing to be more subtle — more cohesive. I’m sorry, but it feels too much like I’m in an Eagle Talon. Again, just a personal pref.

That said, there are interior details in the 718 I like much better. I like the steering wheel more (when the one without Alcantara is selected), and I like the bezel-less PCM. I don’t think my 981 needs to have 3000 buttons on it. You need a degree in mechanical engineering to figure out the HVAC controls in a 981.

I am disappointed that you can’t order the Spyder in pebble/agate or chalk/agate or some combo where the seating surfaces are light colored and the dash and trim is dark. I went with the safe all-black when I ordered mine and then after I ordered I saw a car at a PCA show with pebble/agate and thought it was stunning — perfect for a drop-top.

No wheel choices. I like my wheels better. I would have them swap in my current wheels too.

I think the 718 GT4/Spyder is going to be an amazing car. The engine is not a disappointment at all. The mechanicals on these cars are going to be brilliant. But I feel that Porsche has basically said “Okey, we made what you asked for, but we’re charging you some serious coin for it and we’re not giving you as many options (to increase our margins)”.

I’m thinking that we may have just been really spoiled before. Or perhaps they’ve blown the budget developing the Taycan. Or maybe they’re already developing the electric 718s and they don’t want to invest too much in this release. I don’t know. I’ve had my name on a list for this car for two years at two different dealerships, but I’m going to wait a year or more before (if) I do anything at all.

I’m not a racer. I’m a “tourer” and seasonal daily driver. The overall experience of the car is what is important to me. I may change my mind when I see/drive one. It may win me over (I’m hopeful). But right now I’m just not feeling it, unfortunately. I may have to hear one before I fall in love...

 

You're correct on the year.

That being said, one can remove that stuff themselves.

Ditto removing the heavy exhaust particulate filters, which are not required for US emissions.

If the weight gain, all things being equal, is less than 100 lb, then I can't be too critical. But a larger starter for auto start/stop? And adding a cylinder deactivation system? For a niche sub model for your smallest volume model sold? That's just stupid and meaningless.

 

Reasons 2 and 7 resonate the most with me.

Price- I priced a 718 GT4 with all the options that I wanted and it came to around $120K. I then cut back on the options list, but I was only able to get it down to $115K. That's lots of money for a high performance Cayman.

Missed opportunity - I know that some are impressed by the 314 lb-ft of torque in the 718 GT4, but how does that stack up against other sports cars in its price range. The mid-engined 2020 C8 rumored to sticker under $70K has 500 HP and 500 lb-ft of torque, but the car that really intrigues me is the 2021 C8 Z06 which is rumored to have 700 HP and 700 lb-ft of torque with a rumored base MSRP under $90K. If you select the most expensive 3LZ trim package, you'll have a car which stickers for around $105K. So that car has a lot of potential, but I'll reserve judgement until the car has been thoroughly reviewed and in any event would delay purchase for at least a year to give GM a chance to address the inevitable quality problems they seem to have on their initial offerings.

 

Fast:
Compare that $115 to a 911 with decent equipment. I can tell you, the price is more...and it's a lot less sports car for that money. I bought one exactly because I didn't want to go from a 6 to a 4. I didn't even try the 718. 6 months later, I was feeling empty and ripped off in my fancy Carrera T. It was beautiful but not nearly as engaging or fun. Hang the cost! Hang the prestige! Caymans rule!

I'm with you on the specs for bucks equation on the Vette, both the C7 and C8...but I'm still not liking the way too zoomy style and so-so build quality. When I drive a Porsche, well, nothing is wrong. It's solid. Everything works. No squeaks or rattles. I'm betting there's going to be LOTS of things to overlook with the Vette. It may be faster, but I'm not in this for pure speed.

I remember the old British sports cars. My step-dad had one. I learned to drive stick on it. The thing weighed 1800 lbs...maybe. It was so much fun! It was work to drive correctly. Turn signals didn't self-cancel and were operated by a switch in the middle of the dash. If you saw another brit car on the road, you flashed your lights. Those things weren't fast....but they felt fast.

I'm not out to out-race anyone. I just want fun. Fun, for me, is squeezing all the performance you have ijn a car that feels great. That's why I got a stick when I know well that PDK is faster. I had to get mine shipped 800 miles because there were no manual Caymans. The 718 GTS is really fun....and well made....and nice to look at....and comfy. Great! Cylinders? Who cares? The torque is so great and makes the car so nice to drive.

:cheers:

 

1) The 4.0L engine does not rev as quickly as the older 3.8L engine,

Only once I revved a brand new gt4, but I found the revving slower than in my 981S (which wasn’t brandnew anymore), 4.0L even worse ???

2) Price, ok everyone is talking about the price hike.

I agree, especially with the CO2 added premiums in Europe (adds a 50k in Netherlands, 10k in Belgium, etc etc)

3) Non Limited Run

Not sure yet, I was ordering last friday (Spyder), but 3 of 7 slots were given, yesterday I was told only 1 free slot until 2020, and they didn’t know of continued production after the december slots (they start in sept with production).


5) Weight

Yeah, I would give anything for a 1200 lbs weighted 718 (like the 550, 904 gts), but that were tiny cars. I don’t want much space (but more that a 550) but I would love a 718 with the weight of my long gone S2000 too...



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Heavier than the 911 GT3.

 

718 gt4 is lighter than 991.2 gt3


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Why am I not ordering a 718 GT4 or Spyder? Because my 987 Boxster S is already great!

 

my 981S is fine too, but I miss the daily driving I did for 4 years (6 digits on the odo now)


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Interesting post... there are a lot of replies but I don't see many replies from people who have actually ordered the new 718 GT4, so I'll throw in my 2 cents.


I'm disappointed that the 718 GT4 is only marginally better (subjective), and even more disappointed that it didn't come with a PDK gear box... probably because it would be too close to a 911 range. I think the 981 GT4 is an amazing car, and one to hold onto if you have one.


I actually think the 981 GT4 is the sole reason that the 718 GT4 didn't get a significant upgrade. The 981 GT4 is such a good car that they left little room to improve on, without getting too close to the higher end 911 GT range. It's like the small increments that Apple make to the iPhone, once every 2 years. There isn't much room for improvement with Apple... and even less room for Porsche without jeopardising the 911 range.


The only thing that I actually think is better about the new 718 GT4 is it's looks... but that's just my personal taste. The 981 is a great looking car, while I find the 718 to be marginally better looking.




HOWEVER...


I find a lot of the negative points raised to be a little over the top... but again, we all have our opinions... if you're going to have an opinion, make sure to respect other people's opinion's first.




ENGINE


I'm not questioning your opinion on the new 4.0 engine, especially when I know very little about the finer mechanics of an engine... however I'm curious to know how you know so much about how the engine will respond, feel and perform... without experiencing the car first? It might turn out to be different than you expect? I would be very very very surprised if the engine is a disappointment given how much controversy there was around the change to the 2.5 turbo flat 4 (I'm in that camp as I went from a 981 Cayman S to a a 718 Cayman GTS... a better car, but didn't deliver the same excitement as the 981). Will the 4.0 engine really be a disappointment? Lets wait and see!




PRICE


I find this general 'price' argument strange and somewhat silly (again my opinion). Yes, I get it is more expensive but we're 4 years on, and i'm sure Porsche have a lot more expenses... and at the end of it all, they are in the business of making a profit... IF you don't want to pay for it, someone else will. I think if you're planning on buying a new car in this price bracket, the % increase shouldn't determine if you buy the car or not?


I also find the GT4 (and all Caymans for that matter) to be great value. A standard specced 911 is twice the price of a Cayman S... but it is far from twice the car.


For all of you in the US and UK, count yourself lucky... I'm based in Ireland and my GT4 order with very little extras is costing me €152k ($172). A normal 911 S is $230k here in Ireland. I can't get over how cheap cars are in the US and the UK.




WEIGHT


If you are so hung up on weight, make a few easy adjustments to the car, and stop eating so much food, and remember to go to the toilet before you track the car On a serious note, i'm not a track guy so i'm not concerned about the weight but respect that other people might be. I do have some friends who track cars are do a lot of cycling and they are always conscious about saving weight in the car / bike. If they put a fraction of their efforts into reducing their own body weight and led a healthier life, their overall car and driver weight would be very different.




LIMITED PRODUCTION


I know for sure that my dealership (only one in the country) is getting one slot for the next 6-9 months. I don't expect people to be able to order a GT4 in a similar manner to ordering a standard Cayman. I think AP made a slight mistake in how he articulated that... but I could be wrong.




MAIN POINT


I don't have a GT4, and I have always wanted one... so I'm very excited to get this car.


Life is short, and instead of being disappointed and nit picking about what the car is NOT... I am very grateful that I'm in a position to acquire a new GT4, and plan on enjoying the car for what it IS... while life passes us all by

 

For all of you in the US and UK, count yourself lucky... I'm based in Ireland and my GT4 order with very little extras is costing me €152k ($172). A normal 911 S is $230k here in Ireland. I can't get over how cheap cars are in the US and the UK.

WOW!!!
my 718 Spyder was just over € 112k, okee, it doesn’t have an electric roof or PDK, no adjustable seats (“plain” buckets [emoji12]), cheap *** Racing Yellow, plain bi-Xenon lights, yellow stitching, yellow seatbelts, yellow dials ...



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Here is a great reason and why the electric experience will never match a drivers car. https://youtu.be/G2PkdFNF3MU
I wish the Spyder was lighter but it still ticks every box for me. I would just be happy with a 981 if the price difference between 718 made sense. I’m going to pay the same or more for 981 when the 718 is an upgrade - just for the rev line and extra horses - never mind some of the other minor updates including apple car play.

I also stared previously that if I desired a mid engine car I would look at Mclaren I now see that the Acura NSX is also cheaper on autotrader than a loaded PDK GT4. And for those who like the battery technology, it is also a hybrid. Interesting to cross shop the Mclaren, NSX, and GT4 with PDK if you want a mid engine auto car.