[ritchieg]

The 718 base has the same or better performance than the 981S and is $7,000 cheaper. The 718 has also upgraded most systems in the car so in almost all respects a $7,000 cheaper car is really a much better buy. If you want a 718S then you will pay more but again the performance is greatly enhanced and most systems are upgraded. I owned a 981 base and now a 718 base and the 718 is much better and more fun to drive than the 981 for me. Each person has their own opinions about what they like but until you drive a 718 for a few days you won't really be able to compare it to any other car. One test drive will not allow anyone to see all the enhancements in the 718.

 

[engnr1]

$7000 cheaper than what the 981 S *was* costing when new. You can find CPO 981 S models under $60k, and some under $50k now. Roughly comparable to a brand new base 718 ($53k for Cayman, $56k for Boxster) with no or few options. The quandary is really on the Boxster side, given the substantial price increase for the base model while the Cayman only went up a little and is now the cheaper of the two.

 

[curtw]

$7000 cheaper than what the 981 S *was* costing when new. You can find CPO 981 S models under $60k, and some under $50k now. Roughly comparable to a brand new base 718 ($53k for Cayman, $56k for Boxster) with no or few options.

But that's always the case. Are you saying a new 981 in 2015 wasn't worth it, because you could get a CPO 987 for less money? New cars carry a premium over used ones, for a reason: People will pay more for a car that wasn't owned by anyone else.

 

[engnr1]

There was a bigger difference between the 981 and its predecessor 987, so, I'm not saying it wasn't worth it. The only reason a lot of people are cross-shopping a CPO 981 and 718 is purely because of the loss of the NA flat 6. Much of the package is the same even if there have been noticeable refinements and performance improvements as I'm sure you can attest to. That and the newness / full warranty coverage factor was why I opted for a 718 S, which is basically into the 911 Carrera performance range (and close if not equal to the Carrera S level of previous generations).

 

[ralarcon]

Sounds like a great name for a rock group: "Opinionated Phallus" and their no. 1 hit : "Stop Dickin' Me Around"

:hilarious::hilarious::hilarious::hilarious::hilarious::hilarious::hilarious::hilarious::hilarious::hilarious::hilarious::hilarious::hilarious::hilarious::hilarious::hilarious::hilarious::hilarious::hilarious::hilarious::hilarious::hilarious::hilarious::hilarious::hilarious::hilarious::hilarious::hilarious::hilarious::hilarious::hilarious::hilarious::hilarious::hilarious::hilarious::hilarious::hilarious::hilarious::hilarious::hilarious::hilarious::hilarious::hilarious::hilarious::hilarious::hilarious::hilarious::hilarious::hilarious::hilarious:

 

[tkm15]

The 718 base has the same or better performance than the 981S and is $7,000 cheaper. The 718 has also upgraded most systems in the car so in almost all respects a $7,000 cheaper car is really a much better buy. If you want a 718S then you will pay more but again the performance is greatly enhanced and most systems are upgraded. I owned a 981 base and now a 718 base and the 718 is much better and more fun to drive than the 981 for me. Each person has their own opinions about what they like but until you drive a 718 for a few days you won't really be able to compare it to any other car. One test drive will not allow anyone to see all the enhancements in the 718.

Where has it been confirmed that the 718 base has better performance than a 981S?

Regardless, who really buys a Porsche for 1/4 mile numbers in the first place? Tell all the GT3 and 911R people that their decision to not to buy a Turbo 4S was a dumb one, lol.

 

[photonscience]

Where has it been confirmed that the 718 base has better performance than a 981S?

"Knock, Knock"
"Who's there"
"Says"
"Says Who?"
"All the REVIEWERS"

(with apologies to Brianna Keilar and Michael Cohen)

 

[Anand]

Haldex as in Audis is reputed better than the slip & grip used by the cheaper Japanese, like Toyota, Honda, Nissan. Macan uses the same as the C4 full time AWD with a rear wheel bias to give it that "sports car" type handling vs the front wheel bias of other slip & grip.

I could be wrong as usual, but I think my wife's 1999 A4 quattro and my 2000 A6 quattro had a roughly 50:50 torque split between the front and rear. The Haldex in my Volvo is basically a FWD system with 95% torque going to the front wheels and is an on demand AWD system depending upon wheel slippage. The A3 and TT use the Haldex if I am not mistaken but not the A4 or A6. The 4-matic advertised by MB is also supposedly a 40:60 (roughly) rear biased awd system. Don't know if it varies like Porsche's awd in the 911s. Quattro with snow tires was extremely good in my experience, better than the reactive system in my Volvos, but reliability was awful..

 

[fast1]

I could be wrong as usual, but I think my wife's 1999 A4 quattro and my 2000 A6 quattro had a roughly 50:50 torque split between the front and rear. The Haldex in my Volvo is basically a FWD system with 95% torque going to the front wheels and is an on demand AWD system depending upon wheel slippage. The A3 and TT use the Haldex if I am not mistaken but not the A4 or A6. The 4-matic advertised by MB is also supposedly a 40:60 (roughly) rear biased awd system. Don't know if it varies like Porsche's awd in the 911s. Quattro with snow tires was extremely good in my experience, better than the reactive system in my Volvos, but reliability was awful..

You are definitely correct about the 50/50 split on the Audi. My recollection is that up to 75% of the torque could be directed to either the front or rear axle. Audis with Quattro and snow tires are unbeatable in the snow. My wife is a surgeon and has relied on her Audi to get her to the hospital for decades.

 

[Seinsmeld13]

I could be wrong as usual, but I think my wife's 1999 A4 quattro and my 2000 A6 quattro had a roughly 50:50 torque split between the front and rear. The Haldex in my Volvo is basically a FWD system with 95% torque going to the front wheels and is an on demand AWD system depending upon wheel slippage. The A3 and TT use the Haldex if I am not mistaken but not the A4 or A6. The 4-matic advertised by MB is also supposedly a 40:60 (roughly) rear biased awd system. Don't know if it varies like Porsche's awd in the 911s. Quattro with snow tires was extremely good in my experience, better than the reactive system in my Volvos, but reliability was awful..

I had two S4s a 2010 then a 2013. With winter tires those cars were unstoppable. I now have a 2016 S3 which I got stuck with in our first winter storm. We had about 4 inches of snow and she started spinning. Eventually I got her out. The from tires were spinning. I had no wheel spin from the rear tires. I had the car looked at but they couldn't find a problem. I now have to wait until there is snow on the ground to return it to the dealer. I'm not happy about this as I paid a lot of money for this car. My gen 1 Audi TT when equipped with winter tires was a beast in the snow. Anyway other then that it has been a great car.

 

[RandR]

Even worldwide, only 9% greater than a 981 on its last production year. If anything, this is rather proving the point of the naysayers. Look at the numbers when the 981 was first released and compare them to the 718.

No one is saying that Porsche doesn't know how to build a turbo motor or make a car that can handle. That's a bit straw man in your approach.

Look at the numbers of 991.1 sales relative to 991.2 sales - Three deep breaths gentlemen - say it - you'll feel better - global sales of the 718 are UP 9%. Not down, not static. The prediction here was that sales would tank, they haven't. Also the 718 is in effect a 981.2 (as is the 991.2 to the 991.1). Its a refresh direct from Porsche SOP - not a new model (e.g. 987 -->981 or 997 --> 991)
Despite the rhetoric of jaded 981 owners the 718 is doing just fine :hilarious:

Here's a video of Chris Gebhard driving both the 718S and 991.2S round the ring (7:46 and 7:34) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TzH9tAU8RSU
In the first part of the video the sound is from the 991S and in the second part of the video the sound is from the 718S - this is what the cars really sound like, in the cabin - they sound like.......guess what Porsche sports cars

 

[chows4us]

global sales of the 718 are UP 9%. Not down, not static. The prediction here was that sales would tank, they haven't

You don't compare end of life (or end of production cycle) sales with first year sales of any model. Who does that? Everyone knows EOL sales take a dive. Its the reason GTS cars come out, to get the last breath of sagging sales. You compare first year sales with first year sales. US sales are simple. When 718 sales hit 2331 and 2570 qtrs, then we can talk. If you want to compare worldwide sales, then the 718 has to get 25704 sales worldwide. If it does, then the 718 has a better first year and kudos to it. If not, its got nothing.

This isn't an argument. Sale numbers are facts. They are easy to look up and you don't sell marketing spin. You compare same years to same years.

 

[chows4us]

I've deleted the last handful of posts as being OT, including my own. So to get back OT as explained before, this thread was about the mere fact that auto journalists were given poor reviews of this model. OP

Decide for yourself regarding 718 Boxster, date May 30, 2016 from Evo

why everything Porsche touches doesn’t always turn to gold

What’s it like to drive?

Disappointing. Underwhelming. Soul destroying.

If you, or a friend, ever owned an air-cooled VW Beetle you’ll immediately recognise the unsophisticated clatter when you hear a 2-litre Boxster for the first time. Unfortunately it’s no better from inside, where the tone switches from that of a Beetle run on a student’s budget to an Impreza turbo with a blown exhaust.

Then there’s the throttle response, which is far slower than expected and when hooked up to the PDK ’box brings the very worst out of the double-clutch unit. On a motorway or A-road with drive selected it will kick down two ratios as a matter of course at the smallest twitch of your right foot sending the engine into a thrashy and embarrassing flare of revs. Want to add 5mph to your speed to clear the middle lane of do-gooders? That will be three gears dropped

And that engine sound? Sadly it doesn’t get any better, actually it gets worse

New engine ruins the experience

I've read Porsche reviews for decades, this is new. There are numerous others. This is not an old vs new thing. Its not a my toy is better than your toy thing. It was just startling.

As time went on, others were continually dishing on the 718 in other threads to the point that new members couldn't get excited so much because 981 owners were dissing their cars. Its one thing to keep journalists opinions in one thread and another to diss the cars in EVERY thread. So this thread could remain as a focus point for the negative energy.

There is no need to argue how good the car is here. Numbers are facts. The 718S ran a 7:46 ring time, it wipes the floor with a 981S and is within 6 seconds of a 2012 991.1S car. So a car 5 years newer that comes within 6 seconds is pretty good. All cars get better over time or they wouldn't sell to performance enthusiasts. Further the car gets all the latest tech including a fancy new PCM and driver assists. No one should argue that overall the car isn't better objectively than the outgoing car. OTH, it cost more money but all cars "usually" cost more money (not always but usually). There is no need to defend the numbers. They are what they are. The car is faster and has newer tech than the older car. So be it. But objective measures are not the sole indicator of sales, as noted by journalists objections. So stick to the topic at hand or your posts will be deleted as OT and keep it up and further action will be taken. Sales statistics are fine to discuss. They are facts.

As to the UK gentleman who had a question about sales, sure talk about UK sales, worldwide sales, US Sales, China sales, all sales. But also everything must be done with perspective. First year sales in production cycles usually are peak sales as everyone rushes to get the new model. Last year sales tend to be the poorest sales as everyone knows a new car is coming out. And yes, its sometimes difficult to compare across years as new cars don't come out in Jan all the time. So for 987 look at 2006 sales. For the 981 look at 2013 sales, and for 718 look at 2017 sales (to be fair). But you don't compare 2015 or 2016 sales of 981s with 2017 sales of 718s anymore than you compare 2011 sales of 987s with 981.

Please DO NOT dish people's buying choices in other 718 threads. Let the new owners have their day in the sun. The sun has set on the 981 in terms of new cars.

Thank you

 

[Pokerhobo]

Also the 718 is in effect a 981.2 (as is the 991.2 to the 991.1). Its a refresh direct from Porsche SOP - not a new model (e.g. 987 -->981 or 997 --> 991)

Porsche uses 982 as the internal model designation for the 718, while they chose to use 991.2 for the 911 (next gen is expected to be 992).

 

[photonscience]

I've read Porsche reviews for decades, this is new...It was just startling.....First year sales in production cycles usually are peak sales as everyone rushes to get the new model.

I was surprised by the negativity of the EVO article as well. I've always embraced EVO's reviews and thought they were fair and well represented. But as an owner of a '15 CGTS (as well as 991 Turbo S and R8 V10+), I had a completely different reaction to the time I spent in a 718 BS. I liked it tremendously and ordered one. I too have read Porsche reviews for decades (I've continually owned Porsches for 45 years), so I must agree about the word "startling" with regard to this EVO article.

I think it's fair to assume that Porsche is not happy about any negative press that the 718 has received (though most of the reviews I have read are overwhelmingly positive). I am sure that they are hard at work to improve the cars NVH issues. Therefore, I'd suggest that the sales of 718 may follow a different trajectory, and may ramp up as the car is further improved and the din created by the loss of the 6 cylinder engine subsides. Time will tell.

 

[engnr1]

I was surprised by the negativity of the EVO article as well. I've always embraced EVO's reviews and thought they were fair and well represented. But as an owner of a '15 CGTS (as well as 991 Turbo S and R8 V10+), I had a completely different reaction to the time I spent in a 718 BS. I liked it tremendously and ordered one. I too have read Porsche reviews for decades (I've continually owned Porsches for 45 years), so I must agree about the word "startling" with regard to this EVO article.

I think it's fair to assume that Porsche is not happy about any negative press that the 718 has received (though most of the reviews I have read are overwhelmingly positive). I am sure that they are hard at work to improve the cars NVH issues. Therefore, I'd suggest that the sales of 718 may follow a different trajectory, and may ramp up as the car is further improved and the din created by the loss of the 6 cylinder engine subsides. Time will tell.

I believe 90% of the negative reviews come from British press or British reviewers. Say what will you will about them. Jeremy Clarkson hates Porsche with a passion and even more so because every one he drives (i.e., the GT3 RS) is better than the other cars he loves more. So they are notoriously fickle. To convince me to consider a 718 instead of a CPO 991 Carrera or 981 Boxster S, it took Car and Driver, who has managed to test just about every engine, transmission and body style permutation of the 718, and seems to love all of them (some more than others). In fact, their latest review of the base 718 Boxster with PDK listed as one of the negatives about the car, "Listening to purists’ incessant whining about the boxer-four engine’s exhaust note".

 

[chows4us]

I must agree about the word "startling" with regard to this EVO article. .... Therefore, I'd suggest that the sales of 718 may follow a different trajectory, and may ramp up as the car is further improved and the din created by the loss of the 6 cylinder engine subsides. Time will tell.

Well said. Instead of taking the path of just throwing out numbers in defense of the model, you've analyzed this a bit. 996 sales SKYROCKETED far above the 993. Yet it is reviled as the worst of the 911 generations. So its very possible that 718 sales might take the reverse approach of 987 and 981 sales are ramp up over the production years vice peaking in the first year of the production cycle and then continually declining.

As can be seen below, 987 rocked for a year the fell off a cliff, never really recovering from the 2008 recession. The 981 recovered much but not to 987 sales level but did not fall off at the same rapid pace as there was no recession. It will take a few years to see if your theory is correct but if 2018 sales are worse than 2017 sale, then it won't be true. But a reasonable theory.

 

[Dracarys]

There is no need to argue how good the car is here. Numbers are facts. The 718S ran a 7:46 ring time, it wipes the floor with a 981S and is within 6 seconds of a 2012 991.1S car. So a car 5 years newer that comes within 6 seconds is pretty good. All cars get better over time or they wouldn't sell to performance enthusiasts.

Indeed. However, I do believe the 718 is destined to go down as the "996 of Caymans/Boxsters." The car that succeeds it will be faster than the 718. In fact, it'll be better than the 718 in every way that the 718 is better than the 981. That will leave the 718 in the "local minimum" of being slower than its successor and dramatically less evocative than its predecessor (the latter point evidenced clearly in the EVO review above).

And note, while many cars get less evocative (however you want to define that) through the generations, I'm talking about the dramatic reduction from 981 to 718, not the slight (if any) reduction from 987 to 981. I'm talking about the kind of reduction from the E30 M3 to the (US) E36 M3.

 

[Anand]

. The 718S ran a 7:46 ring time, it wipes the floor with a 981S and is within 6 seconds of a 2012 991.1S car. So a car 5 years newer that comes within 6 seconds is pretty good.

Thank you

This is very astute product placement. The new 718S is faster than its predecessor on a road course but not faster than its big brother's predecessor. Very smart not to piss off 911 buyers.
So for the price of a new 718S (say 80-90k), one can get a slightly used NA 991s that is still faster and with great sound if you don't care about new nav screen etc.

 

[chows4us]

This is very astute product placement. The new 718S is faster than its predecessor on a road course but not faster than its big brother's predecessor. Very smart not to piss off 911 buyers. So for the price of a new 718S (say 80-90k), one can get a slightly used NA 991s that is still faster and with great sound if you don't care about new nav screen etc.

Amazing how that works out, isn't it? Smart marketing guys. They know what they are doing. Ring numbers aren't random. They are, imo, product placed.