[Shannon Starr]

Re: The Worst Review of any Porsche I've read

Also what folks are not stating...which is a big factor...the 718 Cayman has not hit the showrooms yet and the leftover 981 Caymans are getting hard to find. There are none to sale outside of ordering one. These numbers would be a little higher I would think if they were on the floors to sale.

 

[chows4us]

Re: The Worst Review of any Porsche I've read

Yes the interpretation game continues. I will go with a Porsche press release saying "Sports car demand was strong across the board...".

Sure, 25% drop in the box/cay line is clearly strong demand. Read "911 sales" are up.

 

[Shannon Starr]

Re: The Worst Review of any Porsche I've read

Sure, 25% drop in the box/cay line is clearly strong demand. Read "911 sales" are up.

Sports car demand was strong across the board with Boxster and Cayman model lines each yielding a 36 percent sales increase over last year, with 732 combined sales."

 

[K-Man S]

Re: The Worst Review of any Porsche I've read

Lies damn lies and sales statistics! Porsche doesn't release enough detail about their model sales anymore to make any conjectures very meaningful. I don't think you can make any sort of substantive argument about 718 sales until you have at least a full model years worth of sales to look at and even that is only a single data point. Look how much 987 sales changed from intro until the end of the run, some of that was customer demand driven and some of that was Porsche choosing to build fewer cars for its own reasons, so again the numbers alone don't tell the whole story so try not to get too wrapped up in them...

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[fast1]

Re: The Worst Review of any Porsche I've read

Ok, enjoy your experience in your 981s and let folks who get their 718s enjoy their experience in their 718s. Folks can just complain and whine about the sound until they are blue in the face. When it is all said and done the 718 will outsell the 981s given the same time frame. The future is now.

After reading the posts in this thread, I get the impression that some think that 981 owners are bashing 718 buyers. I would doubt that any posters who are disappointed in the 718's exhaust sound mean to imply that anyone who buys a 718 is making a mistake. We understand that exhaust sound is not of primary importance to everyone. To many of us however, a sport car's exhaust sound is a very important part of the pleasure we get from driving our cars, and we are merely expressing our frustration at Porsche for their decision to go with a 4 cyl turbo charged engine.

Bottom line is that this issue has been beaten to death, but I just wanted to point out that my disappointment with the 718 doesn't mean that I don't appreciate the 718 and what it has to offer. It's a super car in most respects and I expect that the vast majority of 718 owners will be delighted with their purchase.

 

[M@verik115]

Re: The Worst Review of any Porsche I've read

What most 981 owners dont realise is Porsche has gifted us the ultimate blank canvas in the 718.
A mid engined turbo motor with tuning potential 981 owners can only dream about.
Give it a few months

 

[Baystater]

Re: The Worst Review of any Porsche I've read

July, 2013 981 Box/Cay PCNA Sales 976
July, 2016 718 Box/Cay PCNA Sales 732

Sales down 25% in an already niche line doesn't sound like they are doing just fine to me. Sounds more like sales are declining. You have to look at comparable time lines and also remember the US is a secondary market to China.
...

The US being a secondary market to China is not true for Porsche sports cars (911 and Cay/Box) - only true for SUVs and Panamera.

When it comes to Porsche sports cars the US market is 4.32 times the Chinese market. (16,561 units in the US sold in 2015 versus 3,829 in China)

 

[Ratchet]

Re: The Worst Review of any Porsche I've read

Gary, work with us here. You can't quote the sales report -- i.e., "Sports car demand was strong across the board with Boxster and Cayman model lines each yielding a 36 percent sales increase over last year, with 732 combined sales" -- and not realize those numbers must include some or mostly 6-cylinder Boxsters and can only be 6-cylinder Caymans.

Again, I don't have a dog in the fight. In a few months we'll all know whether Porsche's run out of early adopters or the company's on to something.

 

[chows4us]

Re: The Worst Review of any Porsche I've read

The US being a secondary market to China is not true for Porsche sports cars (911 and Cay/Box) - only true for SUVs and Panamera.

When it comes to Porsche sports cars the US market is 4.32 times the Chinese market. (16,561 units in the US sold in 2015 versus 3,829 in China)

True, per the 2015 Annual Report.

After reading the posts in this thread, I get the impression that some think that 981 owners are bashing 718 buyers. I would doubt that any posters who are disappointed in the 718's exhaust sound mean to imply that anyone who buys a 718 is making a mistake. We understand that exhaust sound is not of primary importance to everyone. To many of us however, a sport car's exhaust sound is a very important part of the pleasure we get from driving our cars, and we are merely expressing our frustration at Porsche for their decision to go with a 4 cyl turbo charged engine.

Bottom line is that this issue has been beaten to death, but I just wanted to point out that my disappointment with the 718 doesn't mean that I don't appreciate the 718 and what it has to offer. It's a super car in most respects and I expect that the vast majority of 718 owners will be delighted with their purchase.

Also true. Don't take disappointment in sound as thinking the car overall is not good. But its IS a strong motivation that Porsche recognizes - again

"For four long years an engineering team led by Dr. Bernhard Pfäfflin, head of vibration technology and acoustics in Weissach, has researched, perfected and tweaked to make the new Porsche Carrera an auditory treat. ... Sound is especially important in sports cars ... Entertainment involves feedback from road to driver, the controls’ ergonomics, engine behaviour – and sound. Driving pleasure comes from a combination of all these factors. A throaty sound is key – the voice of the Porsche 911 we’ve loved for generations. “The concept of a six-cylinder boxer engine and its characteristic noise are in our genes,” https://www.classicdriver.com/en/article/acoustic-design-new-porsche-911-sounds-great

Dr. Bernhard Pfäfflin head of sound in Weissach wrote that.

What most 981 owners dont realise is Porsche has gifted us the ultimate blank canvas in the 718.
A mid engined turbo motor with tuning potential 981 owners can only dream about.
Give it a few months

You might be in for a shock, at least for the US as the DCMA exclusion ruling appears to specifically call out third party tuning as a felony (as in altering ECUs). It remains to be seen how the aftermarket reacts to that come Nov, 2016 if and when the lawyers figure it out.

 

[Gary Rhine]

Re: The Worst Review of any Porsche I've read

Sports car demand was strong across the board with Boxster and Cayman model lines each yielding a 36 percent sales increase over last year, with 732 combined sales."

In July. Yes seems clear to me. And willing to wager most are MY17.

 

[chows4us]

Re: The Worst Review of any Porsche I've read

In July. Yes seems clear to me. And willing to wager most are MY17.

You do realize that sales rise and wane with production cycles? You need to compare against the CY13 cycle, not the CY16 cycle. That means a 25% REDUCTION in sales between production cycles. At the end of a production cycle, consumers KNOW a new release is imminent and tend to not to buy.

If you believe PAG marketing, while true, its out of context.

 

[Gary Rhine]

Re: The Worst Review of any Porsche I've read

Fun with numbers, years, words, cycles, etc. Right. To me it adds up to a sense sales are going well if that's ok with everyone.

 

[unconscionable]

Re: The Worst Review of any Porsche I've read

I'm not convinced on those sales numbers. I maintain an opinion that Porsche botched the release of the 718 by continuing to produce 981s beyond its "ideal" expiration and not having a down period (where no new cars could be ordered) that would have built hype and demand. Therefore, many would-be 718 buyers walked away with new 981s instead and there was a surplus of unsold 981s in dealer inventory (there still is, FFS).

Secondly, whereas the 981 was a significant departure from the from the 987 in terms of styling and dynamics, the 718 is not so. The risk of buying a 987 in 2012 was that you would be driving something outdated by the time the 981 was released. That's not the case with the 718. Other than some minor updates to front and rear, it mostly appears to be the same and there is no perceived risk of owning an "outdated" 981.

Porsche decided to call the 718 a 982 instead of 981.2. The rationale for that was possibly to attempt to further solidify the 718 as a totally new vehicle and distance it from the 981.

Much of this is speculation, of course.

 

[fast1]

Re: The Worst Review of any Porsche I've read

That's not the case with the 718. Other than some minor updates to front and rear, it mostly appears to be the same and there is no perceived risk of owning an "outdated" 981.

Moreover many buyers may prefer a NA over a 4 cyl turbo. It will be interesting to watch the first year's sales numbers for the 718.

 

[unconscionable]

Re: The Worst Review of any Porsche I've read

That is, of course, the conventional wisdom implicit here. "People don't like the 718s due to the motor." Perhaps many feel that way. I really believe it's a lot more than that.

One of Porsche's challenges is attracting a new type of customer to the 718; the type that previously avoided Porsches for a perceived lack of power (ergo, masculinity) in its segment. Will they now take notice? Will test drives make them converts?

I don't often pay attention to the trolls on Porsche's Facebook page. I saw one buffoon say, "It has the same number of cylinders as my Corolla S", as if cylinder count is equivalent to phallic fortitude. But it makes one wonder if that sentiment will spread or rather how far it spreads. Certainly nobody actively seeks out fewer cylinders in sports cars. I haven't seen anyone disparage the new Ford GT for going with a TT V6, however.

One of my bases for assuming Porsche is attempting to attract a new type of buyer is the broad color palette available on the 718. That's not usually Porsche style. Individualism is powerful.

 

[chows4us]

Re: The Worst Review of any Porsche I've read

I don't often pay attention to the trolls on Porsche's Facebook page. I saw one buffoon say, "It has the same number of cylinders as my Corolla S"

He bought the S. It must be the fast Toyota.

Here is a breakdown of who comments on TTAC. Fascinating stuff A Comprehensive Look At What TTAC Readers Drive, In Three Charts

The people who comment on articles or reviews don't actually own these cars. They own Accords, Civics, Jettas, and ... Corollas.

 

[unconscionable]

Re: The Worst Review of any Porsche I've read

He bought the S. It must be the fast Toyota.

Here is a breakdown of who comments on TTAC. Fascinating stuff A Comprehensive Look At What TTAC Readers Drive, In Three Charts

The people who comment on articles or reviews don't actually own these cars. They own Accords, Civics, Jettas, and ... Corollas.

Ha. It's funny because I think we all knew it was true but didn't want to presume.

 

[MidEngine-Fan]

Re: The Worst Review of any Porsche I've read

All this to and fro has me wondering what comes after the 718. The future isn't now, Shannon, the future is the future. The present is now. 981 is the past, just as my 70 HP 914 was the past in the late 70s. Maybe the move to 4 FI helps meet a meaningless government test. If so, what's the next wrinkle in the test? Or maybe the move is to get folks to buy a 911 instead. If so, what's the next move? An Elise is light, but not Porsche-luxy. Electric? Can they make a good one at a good price?? Any chance the regs will soften?


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[Koturban]

Re: The Worst Review of any Porsche I've read

All this to and fro has me wondering what comes after the 718. The future isn't now, Shannon, the future is the future. The present is now. 981 is the past, just as my 70 HP 914 was the past in the late 70s. Maybe the move to 4 FI helps meet a meaningless government test. If so, what's the next wrinkle in the test? Or maybe the move is to get folks to buy a 911 instead. If so, what's the next move? An Elise is light, but not Porsche-luxy. Electric? Can they make a good one at a good price?? Any chance the regs will soften?


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"Or maybe the move is to get folks to buy a 911 instead".

I hear this theory repeatedly in this forum. Can someone explain why a car company would invest millions in R&D, marketing, and tooling for a car they supposedly don't want anyone to buy?


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[chows4us]

Re: The Worst Review of any Porsche I've read

Can someone explain why a car company would invest millions in R&D, marketing, and tooling for a car they supposedly don't want anyone to buy?

Don't assume they spend a lot on R&D for the entry level models. Much tech is trickle down. They didn't invent PASM, PCM, LED headlights, etc for the 987/981/718. They trickle down from the 911. Even the engine for the S/GTS/GT4 was trickle down. The 718 is a new engine. But in reality, much is quintuple usage. PCM is PCM. Leather is the same, etc. There is a reason the box/cay cars come AFTER the 911 is introduced in each generations - trickle down. LED headlights are a perfect example first released in 2012 for the 911, only now available for the 718. They didn't create or buy them for the box/cay.

Second, they do want you to trade up. $$$. Nobody wants you to buy the cheapest cars. They want you to buy the most expensive cars. There is a reason they call it "entry level". Its not "the end level". Its a gateway car. Now many will say "I don't want a 911" Thats cool. But the does not change anything either. Many do trade up.

Cars come and go. The 981 is no more. The 911 remains and has for 51 years. Its not going anywhere. The 718 and its 4 banger? Maybe gone in a few years. Remember, there was a time when there was NO entry level model until the 986 was released. They understood they could not survive on the 911 alone, so along comes the entry level ragtop and the SUV.