Re: The Worst Review of any Porsche I've read

This review describes the engine's turbo design :

Porsche 718

 

Re: The Worst Review of any Porsche I've read

This review describes the engine's turbo design :

Porsche 718

Very interesting read with a good explanation of why a twin turbo design is not feasible for the flat-4s

"Why not twin-turbo? Because the firing order of flat-four is 1-3-2-4, which means the 2 cylinders in each bank fire in succession, then rest for some time and fire in succession again. If they were connected to the same turbo, the uneven exhaust pulse train would seriously reduce the efficiency of turbo."

 

Re: The Worst Review of any Porsche I've read

Ouch. thats a scathing review.

Now I really want to test drive one to see how different it is from the 981.

 

Re: The Worst Review of any Porsche I've read

Now I really want to test drive one to see how different it is from the 981.

I have an opposite reaction. I'm somewhere between sorrow and nausea, neither fitting mental space for a drive.

 

Re: The Worst Review of any Porsche I've read

Wow, that is pretty scathing. Is Stuart Gallagher a P9 member? Review reads like a number of threads here predicted.

 

Re: The Worst Review of any Porsche I've read

Interesting the magazine loved the 981 Cayman S......

 

Re: The Worst Review of any Porsche I've read

Not that enthusiastic about the motor here either. Porsche 718 Boxster S (2016) review by CAR Magazine
Fuel economy same but more power.,l

 

Re: The Worst Review of any Porsche I've read

That's too bad. I trust Evo to be more honest than Motor Trend.

Well, I'm ready to test drive one, and decide for myself...

 

Re: The Worst Review of any Porsche I've read

That's too bad. I trust Evo to be more honest than Motor Trend.

Well, I'm ready to test drive one, and decide for myself...

Pretty much this. I definitely respect Evo more than other publications out there but it is unusual for them to be this scathing. Perhaps they had too much expectation and are failing to be objective. But personally now that I have a Porsche, dealerships will allow me to test drive them now that I am part of the 'in' crowd. i think I might go and drive the new 911 and the new 718s some time soon and form my own opinions!

That said once I read through the review it did not seem that bad as in terms of price it still is a very competitive package compared to the jag and what not.

 

Re: The Worst Review of any Porsche I've read

Sigh........................Another one? These reviews are so conflicting with one another it's hard to take them seriously. Literally for every bad thing the guy said there's a counter in other reviews. 0 lag on 2.0, a lot of lag on 2.0. 0 lag on 2.5, a lot of lag on the 2.5. Sluggish throttle, superb throttle. The other review on this thread actually says they like the Subaru engine just not on a Porsche! Which is it?? Even the title, it already assumes it's crap when there's no way of knowing because it hasn't even been out yet for the market to decide.

 

Re: The Worst Review of any Porsche I've read

Sigh........................Another one? These reviews are so conflicting with one another it's hard to take them seriously.

It's very easy, the authentic ones are the ones that more or less say it's sucks. The other ones are directly or indirectly subject to wallet punishment should they not tow the "ZOMG it's so awesome" line so they tip toe around the poobaru issue.

 

Re: The Worst Review of any Porsche I've read

Hehe, if he isn't a Planet-9 member, he could be.

Kidding aside, I should use this articles to say "hey I'm buying the worst Porsche in modern history according to the masses, I want a bigger discount"

 

Re: The Worst Review of any Porsche I've read

Hehe, if he isn't a Planet-9 member, he could be.

Kidding aside, I should use this articles to say "hey I'm buying the worst Porsche in modern history according to the masses, I want a bigger discount"

My exact thoughts

 

Re: The Worst Review of any Porsche I've read

Two things to keep in mind here in case you gave it a quick once-over. The scathing part of the review was for the 2.0, not the 2.5. They had some positive things to say about the 2.5 but this was about the 2.0 version. Also, the MPG figures in the article (40.9 MPG) would be imperial gallons (larger than US gallons).

 

Re: The Worst Review of any Porsche I've read

I test drove the new 911 in a few different configs last week. One of them was an S with sport exhaust.

I came away happier than ever with my car. Going in I was a little worried I'd leave with a whole lot of temptation to "upgrade" but while the power is certainly welcome, I think people vastly underestimate the impact that the noises a car makes have on the entertainment of driving them.

There's no getting around the fact that even with the sport exhaust, the cars are too quiet and not as dramatic.

 

Re: The Worst Review of any Porsche I've read

I test drove a 991.2 S Cab MT. And it was very underwhelming not terrible but meh, I thought there would be more torque based on the reviews. At least the engine note with the sport exhaust was actually pretty good. Still, I was so happy to get back into my 981 Spyder.

Honestly the Evo article sounded like it was written by a journalist who isn't on Porsche's payroll.

I test drove the new 911 in a few different configs last week. One of them was an S with sport exhaust.

I came away happier than ever with my car. Going in I was a little worried I'd leave with a whole lot of temptation to "upgrade" but while the power is certainly welcome, I think people vastly underestimate the impact that the noises a car makes have on the entertainment of driving them.

There's no getting around the fact that even with the sport exhaust, the cars are too quiet and not as dramatic.

 

Re: The Worst Review of any Porsche I've read

There was a reason why the 718 was rolled out in Beijing and not Los Angeles. This car was made for the Chinese market, not the US. There are millions of new middle class Chinese that don't know what a Flat-6 NA Porsche sounds like. Porsche is dying to sell entry level cars to this group. The 718 will be a flop in the US. Let's see how it fairs in China.

In contrast, here is an EVO review of the 911. Very positive including the exhaust note despite not being equipped with PSE.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nZZzTl2RP4A

 

Re: The Worst Review of any Porsche I've read

There was a reason why the 718 was rolled out in Beijing and not Los Angeles. This car was made for the Chinese market, not the US.

Good point. Having spent some time in Asia, I know that Asians care a LOT about image. You could poop in a box, write "Mercedes" on the side, and people will buy it, as long as it's expensive.

 

Re: The Worst Review of any Porsche I've read

Yesterday I went by my Porsche dealership and looked at a 981 Black Edition. The salesman worked up some numbers and I decided to trade. I'm picking it up today.

I had trouble sleeping last night because I wasn't sure that I was doing the right thing. Should I get this car? Maybe I should wait and get a 718??? But the 981 Black Edition sorta' cool. It is a flat-six and one of the last flat-sixes to come off the line. But a flat-four turbo might be cool. After reading that I think I made the right decision.

I sincerely hope that the 718 succeeds. I'm not against it. I guess I am just not 100% for it right now. Maybe I will look at one three or four years down the road. :cheers:

 

Re: The Worst Review of any Porsche I've read

Yesterday I went by my Porsche dealership and looked at a 981 Black Edition. The salesman worked up some numbers and I decided to trade. I'm picking it up today.

I had trouble sleeping last night because I wasn't sure that I was doing the right thing. Should I get this car? Maybe I should wait and get a 718??? But the 981 Black Edition sorta' cool. It is a flat-six and one of the last flat-sixes to come off the line. But a flat-four turbo might be cool. After reading that I think I made the right decision.

I sincerely hope that the 718 succeeds. I'm not against it. I guess I am just not 100% for it right now. Maybe I will look at one three or four years down the road. :cheers:

I'm hoping for a full report on the new 981 so I can enjoy it vicariously.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

Re: The Worst Review of any Porsche I've read

Soul destroying?
"The lady doth protest too much, methinks"

 

Re: The Worst Review of any Porsche I've read

That AutoZine article was fantastic, and also highlighted my concerns about the engine's long term durability.

 

Re: The Worst Review of any Porsche I've read

That AutoZine article was fantastic, and also highlighted my concerns about the engine's long term durability.

It shouldn't be a surprise when there are concerns about the durability of small engines which produce high HP because of turbocharging. Porsche better hope that their new buyers are uninformed, and won't have any idea of how many cylinders produce the high HP and of course how that power is produced.

 

Re: The Worst Review of any Porsche I've read

The review is nothing different than what everyone else is saying.

 

Re: The Worst Review of any Porsche I've read

I also think the reviews have not been that conflicting. Basically all of them are saying the same thing, just that the EVO article was a little more "graphic" and up front honest. For those who think the 2.5l is vastly different, FWIW - trust me when I say it's not... I drove a 718S at the launch event here May 16th and came to more or less the same conclusions. Can't tell if the PDK would be as busy as in the 2.0l EVO drove since I drove it all the time in "Manual" mode, to be able to judge turbo lag/throttle response without having to take eventual downshifts into account. As for NVH - exactly the same. Sound is cr*p all over the rev range but more frustratingly (and susprisingly) the vibrations were what really killed the experience for me. I drove to and from the test drive in my M/T CGTS which gave me a good and realistic benchmark.

 

Re: The Worst Review of any Porsche I've read

When a respected magazine writes words like. ..

Underwhelming and Soul Destroying, followed by ...

"The Boxster ... is a poor Porsche"

That's not good. It reflects on the entire line as noted in the article, these are the gateway cars when move up from Audis or whatever.

Sure sounds like the day the music died.

 

Re: The Worst Review of any Porsche I've read

That's not good. It reflects on the entire line as noted in the article, these are the gateway cars when move up from Audis or whatever.

Sure sounds like the day the music died.

That's actually an interesting thought. If they didn't do this to the 981, imagine people kept buying 981's that feel and sound the way they do now. Then those people hop in a new turbo 911 and feel that wave of disappointment.

This change to the turbo-4's virtually guarantees that people who look to move up will see and feel a definite improvement across the board when they get into a new 911.

 

Re: The Worst Review of any Porsche I've read

I think everyone is going to be ok...

 

Re: The Worst Review of any Porsche I've read

New 718 = Rodney Dangerfield.
Now I am paranoid that my Boxster might get stolen.

 

Re: The Worst Review of any Porsche I've read

Since when Porsche has stopped being a business?

 

Re: The Worst Review of any Porsche I've read

Since when Porsche has stopped being a business?

Read what I asked

If new customers buy one, PAG wins
If old customers buy one, PAG wins
If old customers won't buy a 718, some might be a 911. PAG wins
If old customers bail? No big loss. They have 5 times as many Macan customers. CUVs are obviously the cars sold and they are just expensive as the 718.

Win Win for PAG

And if the 960 comes in ... Win Win Win. The mid-engined guys get their dream car.

Every scenario is win win for PAG. New customers WILL buy this car. Old customers? Some will buy 911. Some will buy Macans. And if you really want a mid-engine car, buy the 960. There is a LOT of money out there just waiting to jump all over a FeFi. ALL this money will more than make up for any 718 loses.

Whether some consumers like it or not is no relevant. But Porsche has never wanted you to buy these cars. At first, they were needed to get out of the 1990 recession and pull the company out of near bankrupty. Those days are long gone. SUVs have taken over and this is a SUV company. Think about it. They WANT you to buy the more expensive cars. Want a cheap one? Get a Macan. Think about their marketing. And think about their success stories.

Admittedly it is a small fraction of sales, but it doesn't make any sense to spend R&D euros on new engines if the intention was to kill the car.

Well I didn't say it was their intention. I said no matter what happens, its win win. Some will buy 911. Some will buy Macans. And some will leave the marque. And some will buy FeFis.

Do they REALLY need an entry level sports car in todays world? E-Mission is coming. The future is NOT these gas guzzling, carbon spitting cars. That's yesterday. Read The Families at the Center of the Power Struggle at Volkswagen - SPIEGEL ONLINE The world has moved on and these guys are living in the past.

"Here's just one example of the kind of old thinking that will no longer fly. At the VW Group Night at the Geneva Motor Show at the beginning of June, all the company's units presented their cars in a former warehouse building. The music thumped, there was laser lighting and the managers of each unit drove their latest models onto the stage. Mathias Müller of Porsche arrived in a Cayman Gt4, which has 385 horsepower and can accelerate to a speed of 100 kilometers per hour (62 miles per hour) in four seconds; Rupert Stadler of Audi entered in an R3, which has 610 horsepower and can do the same in 3.2 seconds; Stephan Winkelmann of Laborghini, came in an Aventador Superveloce, which has 750 horsepower and can reach 100 kilometers per hour in 2.8 seconds. It was a classic example of boys with their toys -- who had the biggest, longest and strongest?


But it's no longer a world that younger people can identify with. Attitudes toward cars have changed. Many people no longer care about horsepower and speed. They care about zero-emissions automobiles ..."

Meet the future. E-Mission. Zero emissions. Out with the old. In with the new.

Maybe.

What we want is a Cayman like the GT4. What Porsche wants is to force us to buy 911s.

And what's sad is that after 10 years since the Cayman introduction, a lot of people refuse to believe that.

 

Re: The Worst Review of any Porsche I've read

Porsche just seems absolutely determined to clip the Cayman's wings to make moving to a 911 the (obvious) choice.

Seriously, it had to be more expensive to create an all new engine than to allow the Cayman to share an engine with the 911s.

What we want is a Cayman like the GT4. What Porsche wants is to force us to buy 911s.

 

Re: The Worst Review of any Porsche I've read

Porsche just seems absolutely determined to clip the Cayman's wings to make moving to a 911 the (obvious) choice.

Seriously, it had to be more expensive to create an all new engine than to allow the Cayman to share an engine with the 911s.

What we want is a Cayman like the GT4. What Porsche wants is to force us to buy 911s.

I agree with the sentiment, however to be fair, Porsche did give the Cayman the 911 engine e.g. the 3.4l as found in the 981S and GTS and the 3.8l as found in the Spyder and GT4 (allbeit with a small number of different parts and what amounts to different states of tune).

I think what Porsche have missed is the simple fact there are a number (possibly many) 981 owners that would buy a 981 for the same amount of money in preference to a 911 if the engines were the same (or at least very similar).

There are probably many people, like myself, that see the 911 as overly large, overly heavy with a horror story of an interior e.g. giant parcel shelf as a dash board, cluttered instrument cluster and useless back seats (unless you're called snow white and your family members are named sneezy, bashful, dopey, grumpy and happy etc) and thus prefer the simplicity and elegance of the 981 design.

On another point, at least in Australia, the Porsche "entry" level cars are the Cayenne and Macan with the advertising tag line of "The short cut to your dreams" - squarely aimed at those that need a badge to feel whole.

Anyhow, back to the article, the fact that EVO excoriated Porsche for the 718 is very telling. I will be attending the 718 unveiling over here in OZ and will provide some honest feedback (as others have done).

 

Re: The Worst Review of any Porsche I've read



Actually, I like the review... Sounds like it was written by Jeremey Clarkson, but truly the 718 is a disappointment following the stunning 981. Now how bad is the 718? Well, to each his own.

 

Re: The Worst Review of any Porsche I've read

Gentlemen,
In respect to the Forum terms and rules, this is a reminder that no political discussions here are allowed. Therefore, I had to edit the violating posts to prevent the situation from escalating.

How does it feel when a Middle Eastern brings peace to the forum across the ocean? Ken, I expect a Noble Prize

Let's leave politics aside, guys, and enjoy our toys instead.

 

Re: The Worst Review of any Porsche I've read

That's very good Hassaan. At least a Noble Prize I would say lol.

To all the others, I apologize for bringing a political slant to my post, I typically think of politics as more of supporting a candidate or a party and being generally off topic. Since I believe it was mandates created by politicians that has at least to my knowledge compelled Porsche and others to start turbo charging their engines, I let my antagonism at this get carried away in the context of the turbo 4 topic. Frankly, I consider myself an independent and dislike politics and politicians across the board for the most part. I am glad this forum is free of politics and again my apologies to anyone offended.

What I wanted to say and should have said originally instead of going into a rant is that I hope we all continue to live in a world where we are free to choose and drive those automobiles that stir our passion. Whether they contain large NA petrol engines, small turbos or hybrid solutions. I imagine we all feel grateful for being able to enjoy such wonderful cars every day.

Cheers

Gentlemen,
In respect to the Forum terms and rules, this is a reminder that no political discussions here are allowed. Therefore, I had to edit the violating posts to prevent the situation from escalating.

How does it feel when a Middle Eastern brings peace to the forum across the ocean? Ken, I expect a Noble Prize

Let's leave politics aside, guys, and enjoy our toys instead.

 

Re: The Worst Review of any Porsche I've read

" loved the character of the 981, it was exactly what I wanted and I bought it. I'm having a harder time falling in love with the brand. "

Well Porsche is looking more and more like the GM of the '70, '80 and '90. Namely, take a VW truck, add an Audi engine, change the bumpers, place Porsche lables all over the place and people will buy it in droves, make a lot of money from unsuspecting customers. Remember in the '70 when all those Oldsmobile customers found out they all had 350 V8's from Chevrolet. As if it made any difference. Pontiac, Oldsmobile, Chevrolet, Cadillac, different prices for the same car. Make lots of money, until people became wise to it and then bankruptcy. That is the consequence of following Marketing directions at the expense of customers and enthusiasts.

“We were facing a complex task,” project leader Jan Roth tells us. “Marketing wanted to move the mid-engined twins further away from the rear-engined 911. The dedicated means to this end is the new four-cylinder boxer. Why not a smaller displacement flat-six? Because now that we are introducing turbocharging across the board, it would have been impossible to package the bigger powerplant. Believe me — it was difficult enough to find space for the flat-four and for the related extra intake and exhaust plumbing, not to mention the complex intercooler assembly. For these reasons alone, the six was never on our radar.”

I give you Porsche Marketing.

Cheers

 

Re: The Worst Review of any Porsche I've read

My takeaway is savior your 987/981. It's a great car, but as Porsche's financial strength improves, not one they are committed to keeping as great as it was. I still would argue the financial crisis of the 90s made them go all in on the Boxster, but as SUVs have come along to save the company they are doing to the 718 what they did with the 944, 924, 914, etc, which is to build a good car, but one that kept its distance from the 911. The GT4 sort of proved the superiority of the platform and it seems like they want to take those findings into the 960.

Personally I've got my eye on the 2016+ Miata. If I'm going to have a 4 cylinder, at least it will only have to push around 2300 lbs. Until then, life is rough driving one of the finest mid engined cars ever built, but I'll suffer through it somehow.